5/10 09:12:54.695 Welcome to World of Warcraft! 5/10 09:12:54.695 Patch 2.4 is now live! 5/10 09:12:54.695 If you are experiencing gameplay issues after patching, please make sure to 5/10 09:12:54.695 uninstall your outdated UI mods. Thank you! 5/10 09:12:56.299 Looting changed to Group Loot. 5/10 09:12:56.299 Loot threshold set to Uncommon. 5/10 09:12:56.394 You have joined a raid group. 5/10 09:12:59.429 [Guild] Southerncal: IF ANYONE NEEDS TO KNOW WHERE TO GO, you can ping me for a raid invite 5/10 09:13:00.052 Joined Channel: [1. General - The Barrens] 5/10 09:13:00.055 Joined Channel: [2. LocalDefense - The Barrens] 5/10 09:13:00.055 Joined Channel: [4. terrornova] 5/10 09:13:03.230 [Guild] Computabull: Anybody need a tabard? I'm at the top of the stairs leading to the sewer. 5/10 09:13:04.564 [1. General] Cosmical: LF tank+healer for Scarlet Library 5/10 09:13:12.307 [Guild] Madrone: I could use one 5/10 09:13:16.913 [Guild] Elitekiller: Same here 5/10 09:13:29.981 [Guild] Computabull: Come get em 5/10 09:13:32.188 You leave the group. 5/10 09:13:32.840 You have left the raid group. 5/10 09:13:33.720 Kultura has come online. 5/10 09:13:44.379 Paluka has gone offline. 5/10 09:13:47.981 Kandilgre has come online. 5/10 09:13:56.745 [Guild] Computabull: Stand beside me and whisper 5/10 09:14:01.761 [Guild] Tiral: LAGG 5/10 09:14:04.071 Mairen has come online. 5/10 09:14:23.220 Paluka has come online. 5/10 09:14:37.445 [2. LocalDefense] : 5/10 09:14:46.397 Randomeis has joined the guild. 5/10 09:14:53.508 [Guild] Zedediah: Welcome! 5/10 09:14:53.738 Changed Channel: [1. General - Durotar] 5/10 09:14:53.835 Changed Channel: [2. LocalDefense - Durotar] 5/10 09:14:56.124 [Guild] Randomeis: thanks 5/10 09:14:56.571 [Guild] Ybika: welcome 5/10 09:15:01.986 [Guild] Tannim: welcome 5/10 09:15:04.478 [Guild] Zscheme: welcome 5/10 09:15:22.559 [Guild] Oisini: We have two raid groups forming antone wishing to join up for the expidition whisper me 5/10 09:15:40.555 [Guild] Computabull: If you temporarily take off upper body armor, your red shirt and tabard look better. 5/10 09:15:41.655 [Guild] Tannim: now wouldn't it be funny if the alliance decided to raid the sewers right now? 5/10 09:15:46.519 [Guild] Tiral: yeah 5/10 09:15:54.985 [Guild] Daiti: I thought the raid was just for getting here...? 5/10 09:16:00.177 [Guild] Tiral: Rofl 5/10 09:16:01.564 Changed Channel: [1. General - Orgrimmar] 5/10 09:16:01.564 Changed Channel: [2. LocalDefense - Orgrimmar] 5/10 09:16:01.914 [Guild] Madrededios: is anyone doing summons to undercity? 5/10 09:16:04.327 [Guild] Yasura: there's several raids 5/10 09:16:04.772 [Guild] Taurhild: when is the expedition supposed to start? 5/10 09:16:06.969 Eluminore has come online. 5/10 09:16:12.451 [Guild] Randomeis: is it too late for me to get a tabbard? 5/10 09:16:19.851 [Guild] Mower: We just hit 100 people online! 5/10 09:16:20.260 [Guild] Eluminore: good morning all 5/10 09:16:25.758 [Guild] Why: Yes, I can summon 12 more people if you need it, send me a private message 5/10 09:16:28.066 [Guild] Augmentology: morning elum:) 5/10 09:16:29.568 [Guild] Zscheme: morning 5/10 09:16:33.651 Lalubank dances with Morbella. 5/10 09:16:34.460 [Guild] Passera: if you are lost and need directions, I am standing by the Bank in Undercity. 5/10 09:16:36.668 [Guild] Tiral: heh this is funny 5/10 09:16:36.759 [Guild] Garaka: sorry, I had to go clean up puppy piddle...did anyone else still need a raid invite? 5/10 09:16:39.068 Alindrine creates Bolt of Mageweave. 5/10 09:16:41.271 [Guild] Passera: I will be more than happy to lead you to the site. 5/10 09:16:43.276 Alindrine creates Bolt of Mageweave. 5/10 09:16:47.481 [Guild] Akigain: if only the other guild I belonged to had this type of dedication :) 5/10 09:16:47.481 Alindrine creates Bolt of Mageweave. 5/10 09:16:50.503 [Guild] Eluminore: raid invite please 5/10 09:16:51.908 Alindrine creates Bolt of Mageweave. 5/10 09:16:56.105 Alindrine creates Bolt of Mageweave. 5/10 09:16:56.847 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: amen to that aki 5/10 09:17:04.473 [Guild] Kandilgre: trying to get to zepplin 5/10 09:17:05.556 [Guild] Vythien: The other guild I belong to doesn't even come close in membership 5/10 09:17:18.682 Changed Channel: [1. General - Durotar] 5/10 09:17:18.773 Changed Channel: [2. LocalDefense - Durotar] 5/10 09:17:30.718 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: last time our guild of 140 tried to get a guild photo about 30 showed up 5/10 09:17:35.693 [Guild] Tiral: rofl 5/10 09:17:40.109 [Guild] Yasura: aww :o 5/10 09:17:42.995 [Guild] Augmentology: we have about 100 in my guild on bloodscalp called _Affinity_ 5/10 09:17:43.614 [Guild] Painmanager: same here, never been in a guild this big, never seen such high attendance. 5/10 09:17:44.691 [Guild] Forthewin: No dedication, obviously! :P 5/10 09:17:45.913 [Guild] Shiyali: Somebody told me the guild name "Science" was funny... bizarre. 5/10 09:17:58.518 [Guild] Akigain: we used to, but the end level gear became points of conflict 5/10 09:18:00.847 [Guild] Akigain: and the guild bank 5/10 09:18:03.723 [Guild] Oisini: Again we have TWO Raid groups starting up whisper myself or Garaka for invites 5/10 09:18:16.272 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: invite me to one plz 5/10 09:18:20.497 No player named 'oisina' is currently playing. 5/10 09:18:35.418 To Oisini: Hi! invite pls? 5/10 09:18:35.914 Frozon whispers: Can you help me kill fizzle plz 5/10 09:18:49.489 Oisini has invited you to join a group. 5/10 09:18:53.227 To Frozon: Sorry, I'm off to an important meeting! 5/10 09:18:55.436 Looting changed to Group Loot. 5/10 09:18:55.439 Loot threshold set to Uncommon. 5/10 09:18:55.439 You have joined a raid group. 5/10 09:18:57.709 [Guild] Garaka: oo...100 online now 5/10 09:19:04.658 Frozon: Level 8 Troll Mage - Durotar 5/10 09:19:04.658 1 player total 5/10 09:19:06.874 [Guild] Southerncal: Anyone need an invitation to the raid for location? Send me a tell. 5/10 09:19:20.588 Snurk Bucksquick yells: The zeppelin to Grom'gol has just arrived! All aboard for Stranglethorn! 5/10 09:19:24.332 [Guild] Ybika: is doug thomas hiding out there somewhere? 5/10 09:19:25.895 [Guild] Garaka: we have 3 raids now? 5/10 09:19:26.451 [Guild] Forthewin: We don;t have to join a particular raid to hear the talk, do we? 5/10 09:19:35.597 [Guild] Kandilgre: it's not invoice 5/10 09:19:36.447 [Guild] Garaka: nope, just guild chat 5/10 09:19:40.763 [Guild] Forthewin: okie dokie 5/10 09:19:49.661 [Guild] Garaka: the raids are just for help finding the sewer 5/10 09:19:53.070 [Guild] Ybika: or julian? 5/10 09:20:02.363 Charolais has come online. 5/10 09:20:05.341 Frezza yells: The zeppelin to historic Tirisfal Glades has just arrived! Don't be caught dead without the latest in Forsaken fashion! 5/10 09:20:13.721 [Guild] Pirho: cast 5 5/10 09:20:13.721 [Guild] Passera: and then later they are to help with staying with the group for the expidition 5/10 09:20:14.979 [Guild] Tburke: just testing my conference chat macro 5/10 09:20:16.364 [Guild] Pirho: cast 5 5/10 09:20:16.364 [Guild] Pirho: cast 5 5/10 09:20:16.639 [Guild] Pirho: cast 5 5/10 09:20:43.539 [Guild] Ealphaba: do you mean party of five? 5/10 09:20:48.378 [Guild] Garaka: so should everyone join one? 5/10 09:20:54.959 To Ybika: I saw doug on my google talk list 5/10 09:20:55.971 [Guild] Garaka: even if they're already here? 5/10 09:21:03.630 [Guild] Passera: Nah. 5/10 09:21:04.487 Parnopaeus has come online. 5/10 09:21:04.760 [Guild] Charolais: is there a raid group forming? 5/10 09:21:06.359 [Guild] Passera: Optional 5/10 09:21:08.417 [Guild] Sweetpancake: ima get on my other toon = constances brb 5/10 09:21:08.685 Ronaan has come online. 5/10 09:21:14.378 Ybika whispers: ah okay cool. maybe he will show back up :) 5/10 09:21:18.165 [Guild] Zedediah: Blue aura=pet biscuit=larger pet 5/10 09:21:20.241 [Guild] Garaka: indeed, there are 3 5/10 09:21:23.059 [Raid] Passera: I need some coffee.... 5/10 09:21:30.952 [4. terrornova] Sweetpancake left channel. 5/10 09:21:30.952 Sweetpancake has gone offline. 5/10 09:21:34.248 [Guild] Nise: I want a pet biscuit for Cotherapist too! 5/10 09:21:48.282 Constances has come online. 5/10 09:21:48.285 [4. terrornova] Constances joined channel. 5/10 09:21:48.285 Changed Channel: [1. General - Tirisfal Glades] 5/10 09:21:48.285 Changed Channel: [2. LocalDefense - Tirisfal Glades] 5/10 09:21:50.723 [Guild] Ronaan: is there anyway to get summoned to the conference? i'm nowhere near and have never been to the undercity...just realized the event isn't in ogrimmar again. 5/10 09:21:53.538 [Guild] Ybika: i am happy to help add offline names to guild notes if anyone wants theirs there just whisper me info 5/10 09:21:57.159 [Guild] Constances: back! 5/10 09:22:03.720 [4. terrornova] Rumsfeldt: constance - if you need a summon, whisper Why 5/10 09:22:05.267 [Guild] Khatchi: wb 5/10 09:22:07.083 [Guild] Saraswathi: [skull] 5/10 09:22:10.287 [Guild] Saraswathi: lol 5/10 09:22:12.839 Zapetta yells: The zeppelin to Orgrimmar has just arrived! All aboard for Durotar! 5/10 09:22:18.568 [Guild] Tburke: I dunno, that looks like most ponds in Philadelphia. 5/10 09:22:19.300 [Guild] Saraswathi: that was my son's suggestion as to how to make the skull appear. 5/10 09:22:20.881 Kvinesdal has left the raid group. 5/10 09:22:29.480 Hypothesis has come online. 5/10 09:22:33.780 [Guild] Painmanager: Use ethe {} to make the symobl 5/10 09:22:36.872 [Guild] Yasura: { skull } (without the spaces) 5/10 09:22:37.159 [Guild] Garaka: shift click on the item 5/10 09:22:37.745 [Guild] Lack: curly bracets 5/10 09:22:44.472 [Guild] Lack: brackets 5/10 09:22:44.605 [Guild] Saraswathi: {star} 5/10 09:22:51.769 [Guild] Lack: {moon} 5/10 09:22:52.264 [Guild] Saraswathi: ah! thanks. 5/10 09:22:55.703 [Guild] Shiyali: {sun} 5/10 09:22:56.884 [Guild] Tannim: {skull} 5/10 09:22:58.450 [Guild] Oisini: {x} 5/10 09:23:03.265 [Guild] Tburke: Mining Pick 5/10 09:23:04.797 [Guild] Madrone: where do you get the pet biscuits? 5/10 09:23:06.547 [Guild] Nokota: {star} 5/10 09:23:08.305 [Guild] Augmentology: brb, swapping comps 5/10 09:23:09.646 Chimeraco has come online. 5/10 09:23:09.646 [Guild] Blindedbi: Petbiscuit! thanks! cool idea! 5/10 09:23:10.151 [Guild] Shiyali: {star} 5/10 09:23:11.010 [Guild] Yasura: There is Moon, Skull, Cross, Diamond, Star 5/10 09:23:11.998 Augmentology has gone offline. 5/10 09:23:12.329 [Guild] Constances: in my pocket, madrone 5/10 09:23:16.520 [Guild] Lack: {a million dollars} 5/10 09:23:18.981 [Guild] Garaka: {skull} 5/10 09:23:20.436 [Guild] Arillea: *star* 5/10 09:23:21.019 Constances yells: moon me! 5/10 09:23:21.019 [Guild] Yasura: xD 5/10 09:23:23.078 Cymbiotic receives loot: Raw Bristle Whisker Catfish. 5/10 09:23:23.346 [Guild] Tburke: 15 Pound Mud Snapper 5/10 09:23:26.760 [Guild] Madrone: does that mean I get to feel around? 5/10 09:23:28.156 [Guild] Iamlegion: { skull } 5/10 09:23:31.457 [Guild] Zscheme: they are the marking symbols 5/10 09:23:38.661 [Guild] Arillea: i have a 19 pound catfish 5/10 09:23:44.638 [Guild] Yasura: The WoW lucky charms 5/10 09:23:53.962 [Guild] Madrone: [skull] 5/10 09:23:57.444 [Guild] Garaka: {moon} 5/10 09:23:57.444 [Guild] Hypothesis: {diamond} 5/10 09:24:04.591 Changed Channel: [1. General - Undercity] 5/10 09:24:04.591 Changed Channel: [2. LocalDefense - Undercity] 5/10 09:24:08.272 [Guild] Garaka: {star} 5/10 09:24:10.272 [Guild] Constances: i feel so ... underdressed 5/10 09:24:15.275 Ybika whispers: almost as bad as barrens chat! ;) 5/10 09:24:16.570 [Guild] Garaka: {diamond} 5/10 09:24:17.536 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: are we missing anyone in the terrornova chat? 5/10 09:24:22.202 Telilenth creates Heavy Mithril Gauntlet. 5/10 09:24:26.834 [Guild] Arillea: how do you do that? 5/10 09:24:29.747 [Guild] Madrone: how do you make the symbols? 5/10 09:24:32.279 Akuthia creates Runecloth Headband. 5/10 09:24:37.878 [Guild] Garaka: { name of symbol } 5/10 09:24:39.844 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: 104 people on! 5/10 09:24:40.108 Akuthia creates Runecloth Headband. 5/10 09:24:40.643 [Guild] Yasura: { star } (without the spaces) 5/10 09:24:42.762 To Ybika: What time is it over there anyway? 5/10 09:24:48.308 Akuthia creates Runecloth Headband. 5/10 09:24:49.108 [Guild] Madrone: {star} 5/10 09:24:54.644 [Guild] Madrone: ooh fun! :D 5/10 09:24:54.916 [Guild] Lack: {star}{moon} 5/10 09:24:56.566 Akuthia creates Runecloth Headband. 5/10 09:24:57.390 Ybika whispers: 18:23. dinnertime ;) 5/10 09:25:08.185 [Guild] Mower: {dodecahedron} 5/10 09:25:11.564 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: {skull} 5/10 09:25:12.054 [Guild] Mower: Hmm.. limited... 5/10 09:25:12.648 [Guild] Iamlegion: {skull} 5/10 09:25:13.680 [Guild] Yasura: haha 5/10 09:25:16.696 [Guild] Tiral: {yourmom} 5/10 09:25:18.712 [Guild] Madrone: {triangle} 5/10 09:25:21.526 [Guild] Niali: lol 5/10 09:25:21.810 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: {pi} 5/10 09:25:25.515 [Guild] Lack: {geodesic dome} 5/10 09:25:25.515 [Guild] Forthewin: lol 5/10 09:25:26.624 [Guild] Garaka: so there's skull, moon, star, diamond...and what else? 5/10 09:25:26.624 [Guild] Shiyali: {cake} 5/10 09:25:26.765 [Guild] Gizsela: this looks so amazing 5/10 09:25:27.043 To Ybika: Do you eat meat? 5/10 09:25:28.718 [Guild] Iamlegion: he he 5/10 09:25:31.009 Nise has gone offline. 5/10 09:25:32.376 [Guild] Yasura: square, triangle 5/10 09:25:33.520 [Guild] Shiyali: Darn. 5/10 09:25:34.514 [Guild] Garaka: {triangle} 5/10 09:25:36.838 [Guild] Southerncal: FWIW, the panelists have the icons on them 5/10 09:25:38.155 [Guild] Alishya: purple horseshoes 5/10 09:25:38.606 Augmentology has come online. 5/10 09:25:38.792 [Guild] Niali: {stephen hawking} 5/10 09:25:39.308 [Guild] Arillea: kool (skull) 5/10 09:25:40.070 [Guild] Why: {square} 5/10 09:25:40.070 [Guild] Tiral: {moon} 5/10 09:25:40.503 [Guild] Garaka: {square} 5/10 09:25:41.892 Ybika whispers: yupyup 5/10 09:25:42.463 [Guild] Shiyali: {triangle} 5/10 09:25:43.310 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: {dodecahedron} 5/10 09:25:43.985 [Guild] Artume: circle? 5/10 09:25:47.068 [Guild] Madrone: {floweroflife} 5/10 09:25:49.773 [Guild] Shiyali: {circle} 5/10 09:25:49.773 [Guild] Arillea: (square) 5/10 09:25:50.307 Ybika whispers: but right now i am just munching on tuna and crackers ;) 5/10 09:25:50.307 [Guild] Garaka: {circle} 5/10 09:25:51.139 Brother Malach says: [Gutterspeak] Goibon Garde Sturume nud odes tiras udenmajis 5/10 09:25:52.528 [Guild] Augmentology: hey again:) 5/10 09:25:53.901 [Guild] Arillea: grr 5/10 09:25:55.578 [Guild] Artume: yep! 5/10 09:25:56.970 [Guild] Tiral: the freek is that thing?! 5/10 09:25:56.973 [Guild] Shiyali: {diamond} 5/10 09:25:56.973 Brother Malach says: [Gutterspeak] Ergin skilde re ras lordaere 5/10 09:25:57.587 Paluka has gone offline. 5/10 09:25:57.696 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: {skull} 5/10 09:25:58.762 [Guild] Randomeis: up up down down b a b a select start 5/10 09:25:58.963 [Guild] Mower: {cornflakes} 5/10 09:26:00.181 [Guild] Why: {möbiusstrip} 5/10 09:26:01.628 [Guild] Shiyali: {club} 5/10 09:26:02.978 [Guild] Tiral: Egbert? 5/10 09:26:03.811 [Guild] Telmura: {yourmom} 5/10 09:26:07.459 [Guild] Shiyali: {heart} 5/10 09:26:11.241 [Guild] Arillea: symbol freaks..lol 5/10 09:26:13.007 [Guild] Yasura: My guild calls the circle a condom and the triangle a thong >_> 5/10 09:26:18.422 [Guild] Tiral: {Leeroy} 5/10 09:26:22.203 [Guild] Forthewin: remember everyon Alt+Z when you're taking pretty screenshots 5/10 09:26:22.220 [Guild] Artume: oh my! 5/10 09:26:25.469 [Guild] Madrone: {moon} 5/10 09:26:26.753 [Guild] Rissy: lol Tiral 5/10 09:26:27.285 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: my guild calls circle a nipple cus of dot in center 5/10 09:26:28.433 Paluka has come online. 5/10 09:26:29.002 Nise has come online. 5/10 09:26:34.299 To Ybika: I was going to mention something about chicken fried steak but then thought I'd check... 5/10 09:26:34.299 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: {circle} 5/10 09:26:35.732 [Guild] Madrone: {disc} 5/10 09:26:36.918 Cymbiotic receives loot: Raw Longjaw Mud Snapper. 5/10 09:26:37.965 [Guild] Hypothesis: is there a way to remove the nameplates? 5/10 09:26:38.863 [Guild] Blindedbi: ya. nipple 5/10 09:26:39.816 [Guild] Southerncal: Starting in 5 mins. 5/10 09:26:46.105 [Guild] Madrone: {shield} 5/10 09:26:48.959 [Guild] Why: If any stragglers are still around I can still summon... 6 more people 5/10 09:26:49.227 [Guild] Garaka: anyone else need a raid invite? 5/10 09:26:49.502 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:26:53.485 [Guild] Madrone: {nipple} 5/10 09:26:54.363 Ybika whispers: heh. only place i have ever seen that is dennys ;) 5/10 09:26:54.593 [Guild] Maggiemae: getting a cup of tea brb 5/10 09:26:54.596 Tiral says: Not anymore 5/10 09:26:55.024 [Guild] Profsmith: i am recording (screen flow) 5/10 09:26:56.489 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:27:01.248 [Guild] Garaka: lol 5/10 09:27:02.974 Khole bites Alwayofmisha. Ouch! 5/10 09:27:04.829 Forthewin cries on Tiral's shoulder. 5/10 09:27:06.372 Artume says: is Tiral radioactive and displaying more than 2 eyes? 5/10 09:27:06.708 Sprye has come online. 5/10 09:27:08.892 Kvinesdal waves. 5/10 09:27:09.151 Khole says: Excuse me 5/10 09:27:09.156 [Guild] Madrone: {circle} 5/10 09:27:11.502 Tiral says: close 5/10 09:27:12.839 To Ybika: You mean ever?? or just there? 5/10 09:27:12.839 [Guild] Akigain: wow, this is huge 5/10 09:27:14.785 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:27:22.274 Ybika whispers: ever! here? heh never seen that here 5/10 09:27:22.820 Nemorensis kneels down. 5/10 09:27:30.427 To Ybika: OMG! 5/10 09:27:32.256 [Guild] Yasura: Escape - Interface - Names - Uncheck Friendly Players and Guild Names (and...pets and creations) 5/10 09:27:38.077 Blindedbi yells: when do we eat the cattle??? 5/10 09:27:38.644 Kandilgre has gone offline. 5/10 09:27:39.182 Ybika whispers: lol what, is this like a staple of your diet? 5/10 09:27:45.285 Tiral yells: BURGER KING 5/10 09:27:45.839 Randomeis has gone offline. 5/10 09:27:46.765 Uljasa has come online. 5/10 09:27:46.765 Why thanks everyone. 5/10 09:27:47.054 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:27:47.892 Grimflower moos. Mooooooooooo. 5/10 09:27:50.471 To Ybika: We're going to get it for breakfast after this is over! 5/10 09:27:58.997 Ybika whispers: lol at dennys??! 5/10 09:27:59.290 Mower cheers at Annelida! 5/10 09:27:59.838 Constances yells: any mages here to serve snacks? 5/10 09:28:01.093 To Ybika: er.. not staple... no... 5/10 09:28:06.356 Grimflower giggles. 5/10 09:28:06.613 Ybika whispers: heh riiiight 5/10 09:28:11.017 Telmura tells a joke. 5/10 09:28:12.854 [Guild] Zallandra: hm, apparently I've been logging all my chat for the last six months or so. That should be a /large/ file by now. 5/10 09:28:18.110 [Guild] Madrone: really... mage table please 5/10 09:28:20.355 [Guild] Hypothesis: thanks 5/10 09:28:20.965 [Guild] Uljasa: greetings folks 5/10 09:28:28.744 To Ybika: No a local diner. :p Actually, my wife is going to get it. I'm prob going to get french toast. 5/10 09:28:29.292 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:28:31.835 [Guild] Zscheme: howdy 5/10 09:28:33.287 [Guild] Arillea: how do you get to the ghostlands? or shattrath? 5/10 09:28:33.835 [Guild] Garaka: how is there a lvl 2 in Shattrath? 5/10 09:28:36.939 [Guild] Augmentology: hey U 5/10 09:28:37.492 [Guild] Uljasa: anyone running from the inn to the venue? 5/10 09:28:37.756 [Guild] Tiral: omg >.< 5/10 09:28:38.027 [Guild] Iamlegion: how do you log a chat? 5/10 09:28:39.250 [Guild] Mower: Summoned 5/10 09:28:41.466 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:28:42.689 [Guild] Forthewin: /chatlog 5/10 09:28:50.722 Ybika whispers: ah heh nice. i miss french toast. i miss good brunch. they just don't really understand that angle of food here 5/10 09:28:53.020 [Guild] Arillea: ? 5/10 09:28:53.944 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: I can't see the presenters 5/10 09:28:54.838 Nemorensis says: /g chatlog 5/10 09:28:55.931 Shahkh has come online. 5/10 09:29:03.313 [Guild] Hypothesis: i'm running from crossroads ... not having been to uc before with this toon 5/10 09:29:05.331 [Guild] Tiral: wow 5/10 09:29:07.063 To Ybika: My staple is mostly pasta, pizza, and burgers... not exactly healthy.. but not as bad as chicken fried steak! :) 5/10 09:29:12.573 [Guild] Arillea: or mabe outlands? 5/10 09:29:17.399 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: get a summon 5/10 09:29:19.336 Augmentology tells a joke. 5/10 09:29:21.125 Ybika whispers: lol yeah i think ther eis a pretty thin line between those ;) 5/10 09:29:23.974 [4. terrornova] Kowski: how does it go yesterday? was anyone here? 5/10 09:29:25.982 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: if u need to get here from xroads still\ 5/10 09:29:27.115 Augmentology tells a joke. 5/10 09:29:28.770 Tiral falls asleep. Zzzzzzz. 5/10 09:29:30.261 Gyges has come online. 5/10 09:29:34.161 Augmentology tells a joke. 5/10 09:29:34.718 Tiral says: My Splean! 5/10 09:29:37.047 [Guild] Arillea: me? 5/10 09:29:37.047 Nise's pet begins eating a Stringy Wolf Meat. 5/10 09:29:39.843 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:29:39.843 [Guild] Garaka: fly to org, then take zepplin. or request summons. 5/10 09:29:40.123 Elitekiller's Locoface is dismissed. 5/10 09:29:40.232 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: from the guild, d'you mean? 5/10 09:29:40.232 Grimflower scratches himself. Ah, much better! 5/10 09:29:42.435 Forthewin says: My squigleespooch! 5/10 09:29:43.267 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:29:45.772 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:29:48.292 [Guild] Rhiannonn: lost you 5/10 09:29:48.552 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:29:48.552 Zedediah says: Now were fishing! 5/10 09:29:48.836 [4. terrornova] Kowski: aye 5/10 09:29:51.430 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:29:57.986 To Ybika: sushi, tacos, szichuan food, taiwanese food 5/10 09:29:57.989 [Guild] Arillea: is the conference going on now? 5/10 09:29:59.541 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: there were 3 of us, I think 5/10 09:30:00.662 Nise's pet begins eating a Stringy Wolf Meat. 5/10 09:30:06.004 Grimflower ponders the situation. 5/10 09:30:07.195 Ybika whispers: oh now you are just taunting me :P 5/10 09:30:07.195 Artume says: how is that Egbert so HUGE? 5/10 09:30:11.301 [Guild] Daiti: We're still gathering... 5/10 09:30:14.690 [Guild] Garaka: anyone who needs location assistance, whisper me 5/10 09:30:14.994 [Guild] Tiral: if this is a "Confence" yeah 5/10 09:30:15.657 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:30:15.661 [Guild] Arillea: o 5/10 09:30:17.281 [Guild] Southerncal: We're about to get started. When we do, I'll ask everyone to keep this guild chat channel clear. 5/10 09:30:17.644 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:30:20.190 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:30:22.449 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 09:30:23.593 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: it was good 5/10 09:30:24.939 Shugar waves at Arathise. 5/10 09:30:27.427 [4. terrornova] Kowski: so the conference take place in the guild chat? 5/10 09:30:30.018 Iamlegion yells: I am Legion, for we are many. 5/10 09:30:30.018 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: but chaotic 5/10 09:30:30.577 [Guild] Hypothesis: to whom do we whisper questions? 5/10 09:30:31.411 Kvinesdal cheers! 5/10 09:30:32.542 [Guild] Uljasa: can i get a raid invite from someone? i'm unfamiliar with UC -- 5/10 09:30:34.442 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: yes 5/10 09:30:35.323 [Guild] Niali: hey, when you inspect someone now, you can see their spec! 5/10 09:30:35.593 To Ybika: I'm sorry.. :) 5/10 09:30:36.978 Einarson has gone offline. 5/10 09:30:39.733 Augmentology falls asleep. Zzzzzzz. 5/10 09:30:40.995 Ybika whispers: heh jk 5/10 09:30:41.654 Stronglykbul's pet begins eating a Smoked Talbuk Venison. 5/10 09:30:45.868 [Guild] Yasura: really? 5/10 09:30:52.817 Grimflower giggles. 5/10 09:30:54.149 With arms flapping, Augmentology struts around. Cluck, Cluck, Chicken! 5/10 09:30:54.814 [Guild] Computabull: Southerncal is the session chair 5/10 09:30:56.643 [Guild] Eluminore: yes and can tisk tisk them on the mistakes they made :P 5/10 09:30:57.762 [Guild] Southerncal: When the session starts you can send Qs for the panelists to me, but no promises. Time will be tight 5/10 09:31:00.166 Noralore's pet begins eating a Haunch of Meat. 5/10 09:31:04.006 [Guild] Yasura: oh wow, when did they add that? 5/10 09:31:07.426 [4. terrornova] Kowski: ah.... cool. its refereshin. 5/10 09:31:08.790 [Guild] Eluminore: last patch 5/10 09:31:10.993 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi, *Jusdafacs, Maggiemae, Rumsfeldt, Bunnycakes, Thoguht, Pleimisti, Kowski, Constances 5/10 09:31:11.290 [Guild] Mower: 2.4 5/10 09:31:19.153 [Guild] Yasura: *completely oblivious* 5/10 09:31:30.422 [Guild] Niali: I got behind on the patch notes, too 5/10 09:31:31.137 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: gmorning! 5/10 09:31:33.100 [Guild] Tiral: heh /train 5/10 09:31:39.019 [4. terrornova] Constances: mornin! 5/10 09:31:41.244 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: morning! 5/10 09:31:41.549 Mairen says: {tessaract} 5/10 09:31:43.696 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: hi! 5/10 09:31:43.947 [4. terrornova] Kowski: morning thog 5/10 09:31:50.097 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: was it this chaotic yesterday? 5/10 09:31:59.400 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: yeah, pretty much so 5/10 09:32:03.613 Alwayofmisha says: {skull} 5/10 09:32:05.483 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: yeah... it was pretty funny 5/10 09:32:06.973 Elitekiller has left the raid group. 5/10 09:32:09.282 [Guild] Niali: I was curious about big bad Thoguht here, since I've never levelled a rogue past 20 5/10 09:32:11.394 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: mark sorry i didn't get a chance for your to share your research yesterday - it was hectic 5/10 09:32:11.809 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: it calmed down a bit when it started, then got bad again 5/10 09:32:16.513 Tiral moos at Forthewin. Mooooooooooo. 5/10 09:32:20.543 Randomeis has come online. 5/10 09:32:22.377 Niali grins at you wickedly. 5/10 09:32:25.172 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: nah no problem 5/10 09:32:27.236 [Guild] Grimflower: I love playing rogues 5/10 09:32:30.631 [Guild] Southerncal: THIS IS MY WAY OF GETTING THINGS STARTED. Hi, all. I'm Dmitri Williams at USC and I'm chairing this session. Please do not type in /g while this is going. 5/10 09:32:38.556 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: I figured out we could post stuff to the wiki.. or have someone post to it for us. 5/10 09:32:41.146 [Guild] Tiral: South Carolina USC? 5/10 09:32:47.428 [Guild] Southerncal: LA. 5/10 09:32:48.801 Einarson has come online. 5/10 09:32:49.159 Stronglykbul dances with Mechanical Squirrel. 5/10 09:32:50.639 [Guild] Tiral: oh 5/10 09:32:53.487 Stronglykbul bursts into dance. 5/10 09:33:00.102 [Guild] Thoguht: I am at your disposal Niali. 5/10 09:33:02.753 Ronaan's pet begins eating a Chunk of Boar Meat. 5/10 09:33:03.902 Gontrus dwddd 5/10 09:33:06.250 Hycintha has joined the guild. 5/10 09:33:08.628 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: yes that's the way to go 5/10 09:33:10.080 Gonzorina's pet begins eating a Stormwind Brie. 5/10 09:33:11.382 Noralore's Lionel is dismissed. 5/10 09:33:11.683 [Guild] Southerncal: We have 4 excellent panelists here today, and I'm eager to get started 5/10 09:33:11.939 [Raid Leader] Lightsydor: a few of us have joined "/join sciencechat" for a place to chat outside of guild chat during the conference.... 5/10 09:33:12.230 Yasura goes "Shhh" 5/10 09:33:15.467 [Guild] Southerncal: So: 5/10 09:33:17.062 [Guild] Southerncal: Here we go, QUESTION #1: 5/10 09:33:17.062 [Guild] Southerncal: Are friendships formed within VWs real? 5/10 09:33:17.783 Perplextar has come online. 5/10 09:33:24.041 Lack waves at Mower. 5/10 09:33:28.610 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: does anyone else hear a lot of ambient noise, like clicks? 5/10 09:33:29.401 Boscotore has joined the guild. 5/10 09:33:30.699 Madrededios creates Linen Bandage. 5/10 09:33:31.880 Stronglykbul's Tukk is dismissed. 5/10 09:33:32.432 Why lies down. 5/10 09:33:34.508 Madrededios creates Linen Bandage. 5/10 09:33:37.862 Madrededios creates Linen Bandage. 5/10 09:33:41.363 Madrededios creates Linen Bandage. 5/10 09:33:44.753 Madrededios creates Linen Bandage. 5/10 09:33:45.045 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: No.. but I have the volume turned down... 5/10 09:33:48.074 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: just the usual noise associated with fishing 5/10 09:33:48.881 [Guild] Maggiemae: please put away pets and minions 5/10 09:33:53.432 Passera's Eternity is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:00.600 Why lies down. 5/10 09:34:06.494 Tiral waves. 5/10 09:34:07.445 Darrwi has gone offline. 5/10 09:34:08.299 Numbersix has joined the guild. 5/10 09:34:08.694 Tiral waves goodbye to everyone. Farewell! 5/10 09:34:10.425 Tiral falls asleep. Zzzzzzz. 5/10 09:34:11.383 Madrone's Iorek is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:11.663 Forthewin's ThomasYoke is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:17.714 Boscotore's Bore is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:19.230 Nise's Cotherapist is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:20.542 Ronaan's Kierkegaard is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:21.305 [Guild] Southerncal: Our panelists are Nick Yee, Tim Burke, Constance Steinkhueler and Julian Dibbell 5/10 09:34:21.823 Gonzorina's Darwin is dismissed. 5/10 09:34:30.412 [4. terrornova] Kowski: if u have elephant chat addon or something it will be way better 5/10 09:34:31.422 To Niali: if you have any questions about rogues, just ask :) 5/10 09:34:49.419 Niali whispers: thanks - I was checking out your spec and cool gear 5/10 09:34:51.423 [Guild] Estelan: From the survey data, 75% of 3200 respondents answered yes when asked whether they had become good friends with someone they met in an online game, so we know that most gamers feel that there is something to these friendships ... 5/10 09:34:52.902 [Guild] Estelan: On the whole though, I think it's more productive to think about how online relationships provide different social spaces than F2F relationships, rather than to compare the two and say that one is more real or better than the other. 5/10 09:34:55.419 [Guild] Pleimisti: And it's an awkward question, Dmitri, as all 5 of us are "friends" mainly by virtue of playing WoW 5/10 09:34:56.938 Darrwi has come online. 5/10 09:35:03.818 [Guild] Southerncal: They are all identified by icons over their heads 5/10 09:35:13.977 [Guild] Estelan: <- Nick Yee 5/10 09:35:30.533 [Guild] Augmentology: shouldn't it depend on a working definition of "friendship"? 5/10 09:35:35.970 Elywen has come online. 5/10 09:35:39.850 Réjean has come online. 5/10 09:35:52.806 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: I don't see the icons, weird 5/10 09:36:07.050 [Guild] Constances: great point jullian (pleimist) - its always interesting to me that I have colleagues who I see less of than gamer friends, yet my gamer friends need to be defended in terms of their "realness" 5/10 09:36:08.054 [Guild] Augmentology: ie readdressing that biologically mandated concept for synthetic environs? 5/10 09:36:12.729 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i see them but i'm in group with the panelists 5/10 09:36:13.765 [Guild] Computabull: Do use guild chat for questions and answers. 5/10 09:36:13.765 [4. terrornova] Kowski: neither 5/10 09:36:15.069 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: we're not int he raid 5/10 09:36:17.274 [Guild] Pleimisti: I think it may also be productive to ask how friendships formed in VWs are different from those formed in other online spaces? 5/10 09:36:20.166 [Guild] Southerncal: Pleimisti = Julian, Estelan = Nick, Tburke = Tim, Constances = Constance 5/10 09:36:21.847 [Guild] Constances: truthfully, i think theres a generational divide going on. 5/10 09:36:45.562 [Guild] Tburke: Broaden it out to relationship, if you like. One of the basic issues behind a lot of our questions today is the real/virtual divide. Scholars maybe spend too much time worrying about that as a whole. 5/10 09:36:46.559 [Guild] Madrone: I agree with that 5/10 09:36:51.438 [Guild] Tburke: But Julian's point is key. 5/10 09:36:57.319 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: constances makes a good name for a warrior 5/10 09:37:00.158 [Guild] Constances: in my own earlier ethnographic work, youth and young adults have relationships that span virtual and real quite naturally 5/10 09:37:07.964 Kandilgre has come online. 5/10 09:37:24.690 [Guild] Southerncal: Want to tackle what "real" may mean then? 5/10 09:37:26.151 Tiral points at Stronglykbul. 5/10 09:37:26.151 Tiral laughs at Stronglykbul. 5/10 09:37:32.732 Garaka's Carnie is dismissed. 5/10 09:37:35.911 [Guild] Southerncal: 'twas as loaded a Q as I could make :) 5/10 09:37:50.374 Arillea has gone offline. 5/10 09:37:53.468 [Guild] Taurhild: Can it not be a user divide? Heavy digital users vs light? 5/10 09:37:57.582 [Guild] Constances: guess I'd argue that by "real" most folks mean "consequential" in some way 5/10 09:37:59.724 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: i've set tiral to /ignore >.< 5/10 09:38:03.426 [Guild] Profsmith: what about the impact of VW on *existing* real friendships/relationships? 5/10 09:38:04.344 Tiral shrugs. Who knows? 5/10 09:38:07.264 [Guild] Tburke: Ok, here's one key thing that I think will come up again later, about consequential. 5/10 09:38:08.064 [Guild] Constances: taurhild, great point 5/10 09:38:10.563 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: o god i could never stay in this guild with him in it 5/10 09:38:12.386 [Guild] Augmentology: southercal i've just written on an extension of the Virtuality Continuum at augmentology.com, extending the notion to a _Reality Spectrum_? 5/10 09:38:21.820 Hypothesis has gone offline. 5/10 09:38:22.426 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: lol 5/10 09:38:25.779 Chimeraco has gone offline. 5/10 09:38:25.967 [Guild] Tburke: I *do* think you can walk away from VW relationships. 5/10 09:38:37.828 [1. General] Maindora: anyone from Science here? 5/10 09:38:40.742 [Guild] Tburke: In a way that physical, embodied, present relationships can be difficult to shed. 5/10 09:38:41.748 [Guild] Kvinesdal: Good point re: the distinctions of "real". Do VW's function as meaningful third places (in the Oldenburg sense)? We are in the post neighborhood bar era? 5/10 09:38:47.202 [1. General] Tiral: yep 5/10 09:38:48.981 [Guild] Taurhild: In my experience, unrelated to age, heavy users have more relationships through computers than light users 5/10 09:38:50.491 Callea has come online. 5/10 09:38:52.313 Chimeraco has come online. 5/10 09:38:54.015 [Guild] Adarel: one can also walk away from RL relationships 5/10 09:38:54.838 [Guild] Constances: differently than embodied relationships, tburke? 5/10 09:38:56.235 [1. General] Maindora: can i get a ginvite? 5/10 09:39:03.057 [Guild] Tburke: Yes. 5/10 09:39:05.480 Hypothesis has come online. 5/10 09:39:07.729 [Guild] Tburke: But not radically so. 5/10 09:39:12.226 [Guild] Estelan: it's also important to remember that different people want different things and form different kinds of relationships in these worlds 5/10 09:39:15.835 Maindora has joined the guild. 5/10 09:39:18.837 [Guild] Alishya: only in that it's easier to avoid the person afterwards. 5/10 09:39:19.279 [Guild] Maindora: thx 5/10 09:39:23.141 [Guild] Southerncal: Please let the panelists do the most here, folks. We'll try to have time after for audience input 5/10 09:39:25.293 [Guild] Tburke: Alishya, exactly. 5/10 09:39:28.668 [Guild] Constances: the kids I work with dont really have access to unmoderated, unsupervised play spaces like my own generation had 5/10 09:39:36.152 [Guild] Alishya: It's considerably different to /ignore someone or change your identity in the real world 5/10 09:39:39.602 Randomeis has gone offline. 5/10 09:39:39.836 Thralmart has gone offline. 5/10 09:39:47.219 [Guild] Constances: jenkins and others argue that online worlds like games (and facebook) are the new playgrounds 5/10 09:40:00.720 [Guild] Numbersix: I'd agree 5/10 09:40:16.234 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION #2: Do the values encoded into a space (think GTA or WoW) matter? Is anyone playing WoW going to become environmentally more aware (earthy themes among the Tauren and in quests) or racially insensitive (listening to any troll)? 5/10 09:40:41.651 Kionoto has gone offline. 5/10 09:40:57.794 [Guild] Tburke: Ok, here I think I'm a bit of an outlier, in that I question the tendency to overread the meanings of much of the content of WoW and similar spaces. 5/10 09:41:18.435 [Guild] Southerncal: Overread? 5/10 09:41:31.549 [Guild] Tburke: It's not that they don't have reference to the world, but I think some scholars tend to see far too tight a consequential mapping. 5/10 09:41:37.308 [Guild] Tburke: But I think this about most popular culture. 5/10 09:41:37.870 [Guild] Pleimisti: I thin they matter in the same way as with other cultural products: They give consumers clues as to what their culture does and doesn't value and how. 5/10 09:41:59.473 [Guild] Estelan: And there are different levels to value coding. For example, whether it's blatant or something you discover in experimentation and trials (like figuring out that Caesar will always attack you unprovoked in Civ 4). 5/10 09:42:06.863 [Guild] Pleimisti: right. I don't think there's a special simulationist problem with games. 5/10 09:42:13.678 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: i would prefer this in voice, i think 5/10 09:42:22.478 [4. terrornova] Rumsfeldt: agreed 5/10 09:42:26.426 [Guild] Computabull: Like much of the best modern art, WoW is morally ambiguous, on one level promoting loyalty to the group, and on another level suggesting to more sophisticated players that the group leadership is corrupt and does not deserve loyalty. 5/10 09:42:34.978 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: is there any software that could handle it? 5/10 09:42:44.963 [Guild] Southerncal: Since this is essentially a spin-off of "effects" thinking, how could you verify whether such things have an impact? 5/10 09:42:47.862 Rhiannonn has joined the raid group. 5/10 09:42:49.298 Augmentology dances with Catullus. 5/10 09:42:53.058 [Guild] Computabull: The concept of values altogether remains controversial in social science. My recent book, Across the Secular Abyss, shows that religious beliefs have few consequences in the real world, especially outside strong group control. 5/10 09:42:55.893 Shahkh has gone offline. 5/10 09:42:57.254 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: We could role-play the different chat on our TS server... :) 5/10 09:43:02.292 [Guild] Atratas: why would we play if it isn't meaningful in someway? 5/10 09:43:07.292 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: heh 5/10 09:43:14.417 [Guild] Tburke: I think media effects arguments in any medium are very hard to measure or quantify in a satisfying way. 5/10 09:43:15.341 [4. terrornova] Rumsfeldt: YES 5/10 09:43:19.088 Kandilgre waves. 5/10 09:43:26.340 [Guild] Tiral: Some play because we are ether bored, some one told us about it, or have nothing better to do. 5/10 09:43:26.650 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: have the conversation among the panelists broadcast; not make it a voice free-for-all. use the chat like an irc backchannel at a conf 5/10 09:43:30.249 [Guild] Tburke: Most of the literature that tries to do so makes very big claims from very small effects sizes. 5/10 09:43:43.605 [4. terrornova] Kowski: good idea 5/10 09:43:43.904 [Guild] Southerncal: And if you had a big sample? 5/10 09:43:45.526 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: right but which software? 5/10 09:43:54.283 [Guild] Pleimisti: But Dmitri you've done more empirical work on this than any of us, what's your take? 5/10 09:43:55.884 [Guild] Estelan: Dmitri - I think your paper on cultivation theory from gaming points in at least one wat to study these effects, but they are hard to study ... 5/10 09:43:56.284 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i don't think vent could handle it 5/10 09:44:03.204 [Guild] Tburke: Still wouldn't help--there's an epistemological problem. Meaning isn't easily quantified. 5/10 09:44:05.250 Inductive has come online. 5/10 09:44:06.123 [4. terrornova] Kowski: what's the limit for teamspeak? 5/10 09:44:11.841 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: i think they went this way because they wanted a permanent record of the discussion 5/10 09:44:12.079 [Guild] Pleimisti: jinx Estelan 5/10 09:44:20.328 [Guild] Estelan: :P 5/10 09:44:21.119 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: not sure -- handles 40 but we have over 100 5/10 09:44:25.003 [Guild] Southerncal: Nah, I'm moderating :) I'll post my research links on the wiki 5/10 09:44:37.156 [Guild] Southerncal: I'm here to poke you all 5/10 09:44:41.806 Amulii has joined the raid group. 5/10 09:44:44.389 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Vent can do that many I thought. and we could Fraps the video/audio feed to preserve it. 5/10 09:44:45.215 [Guild] Southerncal: So: 5/10 09:44:47.795 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 3: What is the potential for doing scientific research in WoW or other virtual worlds, relevant to the real world? 5/10 09:44:50.485 [Guild] Constances: I study games and learning and - yes- I think you learn more from a game than from tv. so, yes, I think they're special in terms of the systems they allow us to develop embodied empathy for 5/10 09:44:51.793 Numbersix has been poked 5/10 09:44:53.432 Shahkh has come online. 5/10 09:44:54.835 Phugue has come online. 5/10 09:45:02.080 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: maybe vent can -- agree hearing the panelists would be cool 5/10 09:45:05.359 [Guild] Constances: sorry that was for previous Q 5/10 09:45:15.039 [4. terrornova] Kowski: it help capture attention 5/10 09:45:15.673 [Guild] Southerncal: s'ok, you can keep going w/it 5/10 09:45:26.175 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: yes and it's nice to hear voice 5/10 09:45:27.236 [Guild] Constances: ^_^* 5/10 09:45:27.236 Kandilgre bursts into dance. 5/10 09:45:29.369 [Guild] Pleimisti: yeah finish i wanna hear 5/10 09:45:30.769 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:45:34.667 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i think voice + virtual would be excellent 5/10 09:45:41.686 [Guild] Southerncal: So if the game can have more meaning, can it then have stronger "effects" than TV? 5/10 09:45:46.384 Yezidin waves at Kawaî. 5/10 09:45:48.505 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Next time! 5/10 09:45:49.071 [Guild] Pleimisti: "embodied empathy for..."? 5/10 09:45:56.692 Kawaî waves at Yezidin. 5/10 09:45:58.689 [Guild] Estelan: well empirically the TV effects are very small, so it's not a very high bar 5/10 09:45:59.382 [Guild] Constances: well, I think some who argue that games are designed experiences with particular value for learning want to have their cake and eat it too 5/10 09:46:01.405 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: but on the other hand i like the slow pace, i'm thinking about the answerse 5/10 09:46:03.814 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: can you record vent easily? 5/10 09:46:06.655 [Guild] Tburke: If by that you don't mean the behavioralist sense of effect, yes. 5/10 09:46:12.273 [Guild] Taurhild: I think the problem with the last question is that you assume that digital worlds are not real. 5/10 09:46:19.546 [Guild] Constances: they want to claim that they're powerful contexts for learning... but not for learning the ill values folks freak about 5/10 09:46:23.835 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Yes 5/10 09:46:25.684 [Guild] Constances: like violence, or sexism etc 5/10 09:46:25.932 [4. terrornova] Kowski: it seems there is a record function 5/10 09:46:30.223 [Guild] Taurhild: They are part of the real world, so of course they tell us about the real world 5/10 09:46:31.297 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: really? 5/10 09:46:34.233 Nir yells: What is happening over here??? 5/10 09:46:38.872 [Guild] Augmentology: taur>agreed 5/10 09:46:39.984 [4. terrornova] Kowski: plus u capture it when u use fraps too 5/10 09:46:50.787 [Guild] Southerncal: right, so will a young kid playing WoW think that Jamaicans are all lazy trolls? 5/10 09:46:56.331 [Guild] Tburke: No. 5/10 09:46:59.573 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: ah i don't have recording like that set up 5/10 09:47:14.770 [Guild] Southerncal: No stereotype formation at all? 5/10 09:47:19.024 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i'm dying to jump in wiht comments but restraining myself 5/10 09:47:19.589 [Guild] Alishya: assuming they even put the link together of troll=Jamacian. 5/10 09:47:20.696 [Guild] Constances: well, parents and teachers fear they will. 5/10 09:47:24.091 [Guild] Atratas: aren't we talking mroe about the values associated with predictability and assured progress? 5/10 09:47:27.876 [4. terrornova] Kowski: prob we just need one or two to do it. 5/10 09:47:33.038 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: right 5/10 09:47:40.721 [Guild] Constances: i'd argue that most media consumers are far smarter than we give them credit as 5/10 09:47:44.055 Tiral bursts into dance. 5/10 09:47:54.943 [Guild] Shugar: why do we find the Jamaican one offensive, butnot the dwarven speech? It's just as stereotyped 5/10 09:48:01.076 [Guild] Henchbeard: and trolls in wow arent such simple creatures either. 5/10 09:48:03.695 [Guild] Tburke: Not because of WoW by itself. Stereotypes in that sense are massively diffuse, open for constant reuse. They're like little cyphers embedded throughout the whole of culture. 5/10 09:48:15.240 [Guild] Pleimisti: right. and smarter than educators who want them to learn tacked-on lessons from games give them credit for. 5/10 09:48:20.708 [Guild] Constances: they often interpret the representation of reflective not of reality but the designers interpretation of reality -- about the narrativizing of experience, not experience itself 5/10 09:48:28.386 [Guild] Augmentology: constance> the idea of media consumers is essentially outmoded now. "prosumers" engaging in a "participatory culture" is more relevant perhaps? 5/10 09:48:29.059 [Guild] Zomboni: (Thelial): Is it not significant that much of the meaning is derived between players, not the game itself as media? 5/10 09:48:38.952 [Guild] Southerncal: Isn't there a weighted effect when the trope gets repeated over and over? 5/10 09:48:43.524 [Guild] Pleimisti: when it's really the game mechanics taht do the most teaching/training, if anything 5/10 09:48:55.910 [Guild] Constances: shgugar, we tend to find offensive stereotypes that are coupled with disproportionate access to power 5/10 09:49:03.583 [Guild] Tburke: cf. "procedural literacy" 5/10 09:49:10.860 [Guild] Taurhild: Sometimes, when a trope is constantly repeated, it becomes a parody of itself, and is revealed as ridiculous 5/10 09:49:18.462 [Guild] Tburke: Exactly, Taurhild. 5/10 09:49:23.844 Jaywoo has joined the guild. 5/10 09:49:35.682 [Guild] Nise: I doubt it will form stereotypes, but probably it would just reflects the steretypes a group has outside WoW 5/10 09:49:40.642 [Guild] Constances: yes, i agree with prosumer idea, to the most radical extreme in fact 5/10 09:49:50.418 [Guild] Southerncal: You all are giving audiences a lot of credit. Does anyone have a contrarian POV here? 5/10 09:49:53.016 [Guild] Iamlegion: Isn't this a bit off the topic of scientific research? 5/10 09:49:56.802 [Guild] Augmentology: instead of thinking of the divide of real/virtual, i'd suggest an elastic extension: [Geophysical]<—-—[Cartesian]–-—–[Mixed]–-—–>[Synthetic] 5/10 09:50:08.461 [Guild] Constances: sorry iam, i was still answering question #2. 5/10 09:50:20.195 [Guild] Southerncal: Yep, we're still on #@ :) 5/10 09:50:23.112 [Guild] Southerncal: #2 5/10 09:50:29.861 [Guild] Iamlegion: soory 5/10 09:50:34.817 [Guild] Constances: ^_^* 5/10 09:50:40.419 [Guild] Constances: ` 5/10 09:50:44.442 [Guild] Tburke: It's not that culture doesn't shape consciousness and therefore action in ways that audiences aren't fully in control of. 5/10 09:50:57.780 [Guild] Tburke: It's that the loops involved are not simple behavioralist ones. 5/10 09:51:04.049 [Guild] Constances: indeed 5/10 09:51:08.451 [Guild] Southerncal: OK. Moving on. 5/10 09:51:11.976 [Guild] Augmentology: Tburke>agreed 5/10 09:51:12.173 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 3: What is the potential for doing scientific research in WoW or other virtual worlds, relevant to the real world? 5/10 09:51:13.170 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: from an organizational standpoint, it might have helped if they'd encouraged the audience to use a different channel than gchat, or had the panelists use a different channel 5/10 09:51:13.758 Thralmart has come online. 5/10 09:51:14.783 Tiral falls asleep. Zzzzzzz. 5/10 09:51:25.026 [4. terrornova] Pleimisti: aye 5/10 09:51:25.749 [Guild] Tburke: My first angle of approach with virtual worlds is always to treat them as "accidental social simulations". They're richer and more complex than any model in normal social science. But they're simple enough to study in ways the world at large cannot be 5/10 09:51:28.766 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: i would have liked to have been able to separate out panelist discussion from audience comments 5/10 09:51:29.582 [Guild] Southerncal: As in "stuff that matters" 5/10 09:51:29.865 Telmura 's head asplodes. 5/10 09:51:30.423 Rhiannonn kneels before Amulii. 5/10 09:51:30.676 [Guild] Tburke: Models in social science are predictable. Scholars can make them do what scholars want them to do. Virtual worlds aren't predictable: they have all the organic character of human society. 5/10 09:51:32.748 [4. terrornova] Constances: ya i cant quite tell who si who ;/ 5/10 09:51:33.638 [Guild] Tburke: So that's my answer to whether research in World of Warcraft is useful for understanding the real world. Of course it is. (and vice-versa). Yes, with very firm limits, but yes nevertheless. 5/10 09:51:35.688 Tiral falls asleep. Zzzzzzz. 5/10 09:51:39.355 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: but everyone has to be in the same channel 5/10 09:51:41.879 [Guild] Tburke: That's the research agenda. 5/10 09:51:42.444 [Guild] Estelan: I'm more interested in applications to virtual worlds rather than generalizations to physical interactions or the physical world. In this space, I'm fascinated by how virtual worlds let us break rules of representation and social interaction ... 5/10 09:51:42.979 [Guild] Estelan: In the physical world, I can only maintain eye contact with one person at a time, but in a virtual space like this, I could potentially hack the code such that my avatar is maintaining eye contact with everyone in the audience at the same time ... 5/10 09:51:43.263 Inductive pokes Tiral. Hey! 5/10 09:51:43.853 [Guild] Estelan: Or what happens when I perceive my avatar to be a gnome but everyone else sees me as a night elf? Is it the behavioral confirmation or the self perception that wins out? ... 5/10 09:52:06.658 Sprye has gone offline. 5/10 09:52:12.158 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: everyone could join the #panelists channel, for example, to see what hte panelists were saying. but that requires a level of understanding of the UI that many wouldn't have :/ 5/10 09:52:14.030 Shugar says: a bit slower when spamming the macros please... 5/10 09:52:20.321 Tiral laughs. 5/10 09:52:21.414 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: right 5/10 09:52:32.235 Yezidin has joined the raid group. 5/10 09:52:37.524 Tiral pokes Kawaî. Hey! 5/10 09:52:43.597 [Raid] Passera: it's only on the guild chat 5/10 09:52:44.149 [Guild] Tburke: sorry, we both tried to tank the mob there with the macros 5/10 09:52:46.992 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: does the discussion seem to be going more slowly today? or the same? 5/10 09:52:50.110 [Guild] Southerncal: :) 5/10 09:52:53.150 [Guild] Estelan: :) 5/10 09:52:53.432 [Guild] Augmentology: TBurke> i respectfully disagree with ur assessment regarding synthetic worlds as a simple in comparison 5/10 09:52:54.839 [4. terrornova] Kowski: what if a few channels each with a moderator? the mdoerator collect qns 5/10 09:53:07.015 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: same I'd say 5/10 09:53:15.107 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: ah ok 5/10 09:53:18.314 [Guild] Tburke: Simple's a potentially bad word, yes. 5/10 09:53:23.145 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Less interruptions today I think... I really felt sorry for you Maggiemae. 5/10 09:53:25.665 [Guild] Southerncal: How about the "stuff that matters" bit. Can research in WoW or other VWs actually improve the human condition *offline* 5/10 09:53:28.863 [Guild] Tburke: Bounded? 5/10 09:53:37.942 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: does wow support channel moderation? 5/10 09:53:39.022 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i had a ton of whispers to keep up with :D 5/10 09:53:41.741 Tiral falls asleep. Zzzzzzz. 5/10 09:53:52.461 [Guild] Constances: it already has, southern, at least for the peeps I study 5/10 09:53:58.101 [Guild] Augmentology: TBurke> alternate perhaps. i prefer augmented:) 5/10 09:53:58.667 Forthewin nods at Kandilgre. 5/10 09:54:06.137 [Guild] Southerncal: Do tell, Constance 5/10 09:54:36.255 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: see, that's one problem: guest accounts can't join the guild, so they're missing completely out 5/10 09:54:41.014 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i dont' feel like the panelists are saying as much as i thought they would 5/10 09:54:43.454 [1. General] Enzya: "Death and Eternity" is a new, mature guild 18+ yrs old recruiting all levels. We are a social and knowledgeable leveling guild. Friendly and talkative. We have a Bank and Tabard. Pst for invite. 5/10 09:54:51.731 [Guild] Constances: i think ur asking a different question tho - ur asking for us to reflect on the ways that a social simulation like wow etc can be predictive for offline phenomena... yes? 5/10 09:55:14.570 [Guild] Southerncal: I am 5/10 09:55:15.166 [Guild] Constances: example: does crisis management here help us understand crisis management offline 5/10 09:55:22.811 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: typing is probably limiting them 5/10 09:55:23.089 Gyges bursts into dance. 5/10 09:55:33.253 [Guild] Augmentology: Sotherncal> in terms of examining the base functionality of a community formed in a creche space, i'd say yes:) 5/10 09:55:35.298 [Guild] Southerncal: Correct, or leadership, learning, networking, etc. 5/10 09:55:39.186 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Do some of them have something prepared that they copy and paste? 5/10 09:55:45.204 [Guild] Tburke: I think the answer to that question is yes. First because understanding how and why things happen in the social or political or economic world always helps us to act. 5/10 09:55:48.589 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: feels like it 5/10 09:55:58.450 Demena has come online. 5/10 09:55:59.037 [Guild] Constances: indeed 5/10 09:56:08.653 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: no they are mostly not copy/paste 5/10 09:56:18.409 [Guild] Tburke: But I also think we can even test or "play" with some working ideas about action or policy. 5/10 09:56:18.935 Trickshot has come online. 5/10 09:56:35.888 [Guild] Southerncal: Can you assume that the two scenarios match, though? It's not as if the risks line up. 5/10 09:56:36.981 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: fast typers, then 5/10 09:56:41.957 Forthewin nods at Tburke. 5/10 09:56:43.148 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: yep 5/10 09:56:44.665 [Guild] Taurhild: I think we need to be careful about drawing conclusions from one performative space to another. 5/10 09:56:48.119 [Guild] Maindora: like 2nd life playing with economic policy? 5/10 09:56:58.357 [Guild] Southerncal: For my social scientist brethren out there, this is the generalizability/external validity issue 5/10 09:56:59.797 [Guild] Pleimisti: constance can you give a specific case or two of such offline "improvements?" 5/10 09:57:00.920 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: If only we had an alliance raid on UC right now. :p 5/10 09:57:09.064 [Guild] Augmentology: agreed southern 5/10 09:57:11.956 [Guild] Tburke: They're not going to match. But then they don't match even in real life: we form policy outside of the world, and it often goes wrong because of it. 5/10 09:57:15.709 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: that wouuld be soooo cool 5/10 09:57:30.840 [4. terrornova] Kowski: i wanna to... 5/10 09:57:32.205 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: isn't there one scheduled for after the event? 5/10 09:57:33.939 Oisini has gone offline. 5/10 09:57:37.431 [Guild] Southerncal: Example: A problem for civic society offline is a lack of intergration of groups for diversity of ideas. How do you fix that with VW research? 5/10 09:57:37.431 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i believe so 5/10 09:57:41.215 [4. terrornova] Kowski: raiding is tmmr no? 5/10 09:57:43.334 [Guild] Taurhild: This is not a laboratory for any other environment, this is an unique communication situation. 5/10 09:57:43.335 Elitekiller's Locoface is dismissed. 5/10 09:57:46.054 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: today or tomorrow? 5/10 09:57:51.176 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: but if the alliance approached we could pwn them! 5/10 09:57:51.417 Elitekiller has gone offline. 5/10 09:57:58.068 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: o don't remember the schedule 5/10 09:57:58.068 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: human mage is supposed to trigger the guards here after the talks 5/10 09:58:03.266 Oisini has come online. 5/10 09:58:06.607 [4. terrornova] Bunnycakes: huntin dinosaurs near Grom'gol, i think 5/10 09:58:09.125 [Guild] Constances: well, i tend to use games under a "gateway drug" model. so intellectual practices here give entree into intellectual practices elsewhere. 5/10 09:58:11.675 [1. General] Enzya: "Death and Eternity" is a new, mature guild 18+ yrs old recruiting all levels. We are a social and knowledgeable leveling guild. Friendly and talkative. We have a Bank and Tabard. Pst for invite. 5/10 09:58:17.703 [Guild] Atratas: at risk of sounding like a teacher - thre are clear transferrable skills 5/10 09:58:22.543 Crucinogen has come online. 5/10 09:58:24.196 [Guild] Tburke: No situation is so unique that you can't generalize in some way from it. But it's a mistake to assume that social science has to be on a relentless drive to generalize. 5/10 09:58:32.733 [Guild] Southerncal: That's Q5, Atratas :) 5/10 09:58:44.293 [Guild] Daiti: In "Last Child in the Woods" it's suggested that kids who don't go outside to play have a higher risk of ADHD, but looking a a natural veiw (Say- trees out a window) relaxes them and helps. Where do you think virtual worlds (natural vistas like WoW) fall? 5/10 09:59:03.767 [Guild] Pleimisti: Yeah i'm with Nick on this -- the more interesting research problem is understanding VWs themselves as social spaces 5/10 09:59:13.923 Demena waves at Augmentology. 5/10 09:59:14.208 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: The site of the second session is the cavern in the sewers near the city, a green pool lit by a torch with windriders flying overhead (Undercity 32,32). For the first activity, Alliance priest Maxrohn will attempt to coax Undercity guards into the cavern 5/10 09:59:14.496 [Guild] Daiti: (Sorry, accidental hit on the enter key) 5/10 09:59:22.010 [Guild] Southerncal: S'ok, but send Qs via me 5/10 09:59:30.001 [Guild] Augmentology: daiti> ur raising the issue of engagement/immersion vs reflection/introspection? 5/10 09:59:31.682 [Guild] Constances: as long as we understand them as part of the everyday fabric that matters I'm good w/that plei 5/10 09:59:32.242 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: and kill them thus perhaps alerting the city to an intrusion. 5/10 09:59:33.043 [Guild] Estelan: and I think splitting it all up into online vs. offline is strange given that so much of our interactions happen in mediated spaces already 5/10 09:59:38.329 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: but we won't have any allies to fight 5/10 09:59:45.420 Stronglykbul lies down before Telmura. 5/10 09:59:50.116 Telmura bursts into dance. 5/10 09:59:50.369 [Guild] Southerncal: Good point. Shifting gears a bit: 5/10 09:59:52.298 [Guild] Tburke: I think the most interesting way to look at policy formation or action in VWs is to watch what developers do historically. 5/10 10:00:03.316 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 4: Why would anyone gender swap? 5/10 10:00:13.405 Dramanite has joined the guild. 5/10 10:00:16.143 [Guild] Augmentology: exactly est. 5/10 10:00:17.016 [Guild] Constances: why WOULDNT someone genderswap? 5/10 10:00:17.016 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: right. tomorrow is the raid on an alli town 5/10 10:00:19.820 [Guild] Tburke: An oldie but goodie! 5/10 10:00:26.291 Forthewin laughs at Constances. 5/10 10:00:27.710 Gonzorina nods. 5/10 10:00:28.289 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: ah ok, ty Liz 5/10 10:00:29.565 [Guild] Taurhild: absolutly Constance! 5/10 10:00:35.832 [Guild] Constances: sorry but dam Id love to swap gender for a few days. 5/10 10:00:38.856 [1. General] Enzya: "Death and Eternity" is a new, mature guild 18+ yrs old recruiting all levels. We are a social and knowledgeable leveling guild. Friendly and talkative. We have a Bank and Tabard. Pst for invite. 5/10 10:00:42.369 [Guild] Thralmart: exactly 5/10 10:02:08.551 Forthewin cheers at Maggiemae! 5/10 10:02:10.753 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: only in part. 5/10 10:02:11.029 Megatoncito has gone offline. 5/10 10:02:11.880 [Guild] Zedediah: Excuse me, is there a difference between gender swapping in RP vs non-RP environments? 5/10 10:02:13.607 [Guild] Estelan: They either say it's because female avatars are treated better (thus an advantage in game) or because they'd rather look at a woman's behind for 20 hours a week rather than a man's behind. 5/10 10:02:17.497 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: ok i need to shut up 5/10 10:02:17.774 [Guild] Tburke: Right, Maggie: the old "if I have to look at an ass, I'd prefer a female one". 5/10 10:02:18.342 [Guild] Southerncal: Do the female players then not like to look at the male avs? 5/10 10:02:28.051 [Guild] Computabull: Ray Kurzweil no more thinks he is a woman, like his avatar Ramona, than kids think they are rotund Italian plumbers like the Mario they play with. Some young males may prefer female characters because no girl is willing to be their friend. 5/10 10:02:29.129 [Guild] Charolais: female characters also recieve gifts 5/10 10:02:30.728 [Guild] Pleimisti: well there's also a rat-choice explanation: more ingame advantage for female chars 5/10 10:02:32.770 [Guild] Ophelie: The male avs in WoW are ugly. 5/10 10:02:35.047 [Guild] Noralore: I think men like to experiment with 'being' women 5/10 10:02:35.888 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: I have never been treated better as a female char 5/10 10:02:41.488 [Guild] Ophelie: To be brief and blunt. 5/10 10:02:42.886 [Guild] Maindora: i know women who prefer to play males so they won't be hit on 5/10 10:02:45.832 You are now AFK: Away from Keyboard 5/10 10:02:46.185 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: me too!! i don't know where that myth came from 5/10 10:02:47.316 [Guild] Pleimisti: OK, Estelan beat me that time. 5/10 10:02:47.316 [Guild] Atratas: some pple actively genderswap - pass as it might be callled 5/10 10:02:52.582 [Guild] Constances: we need to differentiate between gamers' theories of genderswapping and gamers' motivations for it methinks 5/10 10:02:55.727 [Guild] Maindora: they want to avoid that "in-game advantage" 5/10 10:02:57.122 You are no longer AFK. 5/10 10:02:57.210 [Guild] Perplextar: I have seen statistics saying that in Entropia Universe there are mano _women_ genderswapping, as many as men 5/10 10:02:59.765 [Guild] Maggiemae: hey the night elf men are cute :D 5/10 10:03:07.920 [Guild] Tburke: Yes, that's right, Constance. 5/10 10:03:08.482 [Guild] Augmentology: southern> alternate gender adoption may have to do with an added engagement within an perceived boundaryless arena? 5/10 10:03:21.519 [Guild] Thoguht: Different with RP servers? 5/10 10:03:39.478 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: maybe the men are too overly masculine in WoW? 5/10 10:03:42.322 [Guild] Thralmart: how many people here are currently gender swapped? 5/10 10:03:45.555 [Guild] Southerncal: I'm finding that RP doesn't happen any more or less on RP servers than others. Very odd, but solid finding. 5/10 10:03:48.579 [Guild] Saraswathi: but maggiemae, the male avatars in wow are definitely not based on women's idealized views of men in the same way that the reverse is true 5/10 10:03:49.321 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: well.. I guess most RP servers don't really have a ton of RPers 5/10 10:03:53.192 Grimflower waves at Telmura. 5/10 10:03:53.473 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: I mean the male toons 5/10 10:03:53.962 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i think male taurens are kind of cool 5/10 10:04:02.592 [4. terrornova] Kowski: i dun like most of how they look though. 5/10 10:04:03.432 [Guild] Ealphaba: i think the swappimng may also have something to do with the amount of time men in general spend trying to figure out what women want, and how they think 5/10 10:04:08.230 Gonzorina raises her hand in the air. 5/10 10:04:19.190 [Guild] Computabull: You might as well ask about "race swapping." Tauren and Trolls seem to represent Native Americans and Afro-Caribbeans, respectively. 5/10 10:04:22.668 [Guild] Thoguht: Ok then... diff with RPers? 5/10 10:04:24.388 [4. terrornova] Kowski: prefer the final fantasy types :) 5/10 10:04:25.746 [Guild] Estelan: Interesting point Sara ... 5/10 10:04:34.695 [Guild] Constances: hey i <3 the male dwarfs but I still dont play one. there are serious gender differences in relationship to avatar I would hypothesize 5/10 10:04:37.277 [Guild] Jusdafacs: Considering there's supposed to be a lot less women than men in these games, could that be the source of the difference? 5/10 10:04:39.985 Shugar says: I'm species-swapped already, gender is the least of my concerns... 5/10 10:04:48.705 [Guild] Constances: lol jusda 5/10 10:04:48.982 Telmura raises hand for gender swapping. 5/10 10:04:50.621 Forthewin nods at Saraswathi. 5/10 10:05:02.900 [Guild] Perplextar: I am a normal Euro, a Tauren was my automatic 1st choice upon reading the description 5/10 10:05:06.876 [Guild] Zedediah: Might i point out the lack of females among "ugly" races 5/10 10:05:07.740 [Guild] Charolais: but when the avatar is a cow, it has little to do with appearances. 5/10 10:05:22.497 [Guild] Maindora: yeah, nobody plays female dwarves 5/10 10:05:27.656 [Guild] Demena: My main is an orc female. (I'm female RL, too.) 5/10 10:05:28.114 [Guild] Thralmart: women do 5/10 10:05:30.141 [Guild] Jusdafacs: I did! 5/10 10:05:30.414 [Guild] Garaka: I do 5/10 10:05:32.455 [Guild] Southerncal: OK, next topic: 5/10 10:05:33.935 [Guild] Saraswathi: i did :) 5/10 10:05:35.375 [Guild] Zomboni: (Thelial): You just can't tell 5/10 10:05:36.494 [Guild] Madrone: my first char was a female dwarf 5/10 10:05:37.854 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 5: I've heard that games can be good for learning, but can anyone really learn anything important in WoW? Is there transfer? 5/10 10:05:42.653 [Guild] Boscotore: There are female dwarves? 5/10 10:05:43.106 [Guild] Alishya: Well, in real life, I'm transgendered male to female, and I exclusively play female characters.. does that count as being genderswapped or not? 5/10 10:05:43.653 [Guild] Augmentology: maindora> the ratio seems low, agreed 5/10 10:05:45.693 [Guild] Tburke: I know who should answer this one. 5/10 10:05:46.252 [Guild] Maggiemae: there is one female dwarf in one of my guilds 5/10 10:05:49.052 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: I like the female dwarf 5/10 10:05:51.101 [Guild] Noralore: I have female dwarf named Baubo 5/10 10:05:52.252 [Guild] Constances: ...... memmemememe pick me! 5/10 10:05:55.731 [Guild] Constances: ^_^* 5/10 10:06:00.010 [Guild] Pleimisti: paging Constance 5/10 10:06:01.099 [Guild] Southerncal: Please keep the typing down, folks. 5/10 10:06:02.213 [Guild] Estelan: lol 5/10 10:06:05.169 [Guild] Constances: ummm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes, yes people learn 5/10 10:06:13.648 [Guild] Southerncal: Constance really wants to type here :) 5/10 10:06:18.407 [Guild] Constances: now as to data: 5/10 10:06:18.686 [Guild] Demena: Certainly people can learn economic skills within a game like WoW. 5/10 10:06:30.539 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: I'd like to think we're learning in WoW right now. 5/10 10:06:37.723 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: lol 5/10 10:06:43.002 [4. terrornova] Kowski: yes yes 5/10 10:06:46.091 [Guild] Southerncal: /braces for data 5/10 10:06:46.883 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: this is utterly fascinating 5/10 10:06:49.484 [Guild] Demena: My nine-year-old has learned quite a bit from buying and selling in the auction house. 5/10 10:06:52.599 Forthewin laughs at Southerncal. 5/10 10:06:53.400 [Guild] Réjean: please let the panalists speak 5/10 10:07:00.560 [Guild] Constances: Ive focused mostly on informal science, computational literacy, digital & traditional literacies 5/10 10:07:14.636 [Guild] Constances: theres some compenlling findings, I wont bore u with them all 5/10 10:07:17.636 [Guild] Constances: but... 5/10 10:07:33.083 [Guild] Constances: on analysis, 86% of forum chatter = social knowledge construction 5/10 10:07:40.032 [Guild] Constances: only 8% was idle chatter 5/10 10:07:44.311 [Guild] Constances: mom jokes, what have u 5/10 10:07:48.510 [Guild] Southerncal: translation for us non educatin' types? 5/10 10:07:53.192 [Guild] Constances: once i removed the jullian factor i mean 5/10 10:07:58.388 [Guild] Pleimisti: ! 5/10 10:08:01.268 [Guild] Constances: heheh 5/10 10:08:05.028 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: I've learned how to manage teams way better through being a guild leader. 5/10 10:08:05.035 Forthewin ponders Constances's theory. 5/10 10:08:11.585 [Guild] Iamlegion: ! 5/10 10:08:11.591 [Guild] Southerncal: "social knowledge construction" = ? 5/10 10:08:14.505 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i can well imagine 5/10 10:08:15.075 Typezombie has come online. 5/10 10:08:22.072 Gonzorina ponders the situation. 5/10 10:08:32.143 [Guild] Constances: problem solving, puzzling thru systems (often by hypothesizing models), etc 5/10 10:08:34.072 [Guild] Maindora: &"julian factor" 5/10 10:08:36.222 [Guild] Typezombie: hi folks is the confrence still going on today 5/10 10:08:40.421 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: social knowledge construction = learning 5/10 10:08:49.819 [Guild] Constances: oh, im razzing jullian. as if he's a major effect for mom jokes 5/10 10:08:50.020 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: and I've learned that we need thicker skins in a lot of disputes.. a lot of them are misunderstandings 5/10 10:08:50.580 [4. terrornova] Kowski: being a guild leader is hard 5/10 10:09:01.616 [Guild] Constances: o.o 5/10 10:09:10.575 [Guild] Pleimisti: apparently i am. 5/10 10:09:17.135 [Guild] Southerncal: So, yes there is learning. Any limitations or affordances different than classrooms? 5/10 10:09:18.453 Forme has gone offline. 5/10 10:09:22.573 [Guild] Pleimisti: a social scientist said so. 5/10 10:09:23.816 [Guild] Augmentology: thats interesting constance. i assume the "mon jokes"/chuck norris elements show a lvl of darwinian transference, with a strong indication of selection & adaptation specific to the synthetic environment 5/10 10:09:41.099 Jalena listens with interest 5/10 10:09:52.128 [Guild] Garaka: I still didn't get the definition of "social knowledge construction" 5/10 10:09:53.968 [Guild] Constances: harummph, southern yes and yes. 5/10 10:09:57.091 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i wonder who augmentology is -- he asked about talking in chat and i told him to let the panelists speak 5/10 10:10:07.964 Blindedbi dances with Augmentology. 5/10 10:10:15.057 [Guild] Southerncal: There is my quote for the day: "chuck norris elements show a level of darwinian transference 5/10 10:10:23.083 [Guild] Maggiemae: lol 5/10 10:10:24.122 Forthewin laughs at Southerncal. 5/10 10:10:24.722 [Guild] Augmentology: eheheh:) 5/10 10:10:24.972 Yasura laughs. 5/10 10:10:25.802 Oisini dances with Augmentology. 5/10 10:10:28.063 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: Mez Breeze it says 5/10 10:10:28.321 Jalena blows Augmentology a kiss. 5/10 10:10:30.442 [Guild] Constances: to put it plainly: folks here are focused on a motherload of intellectual work, that when compared to K-12 standards looks OFF THEW HOOK 5/10 10:10:32.079 Gonzorina nods. 5/10 10:10:35.440 Jalena dances with Augmentology. 5/10 10:10:39.285 [Guild] Constances: now, NOT ALL peopel gaming do it 5/10 10:10:39.640 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: right but is that a real name? 5/10 10:10:46.558 [Guild] Constances: and NOT ALL games elicit it (tho most do) 5/10 10:11:01.384 Mashard says: DEMISE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD WOOOOOOOOT 5/10 10:11:03.876 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: there's a web site, let me check 5/10 10:11:04.756 [Guild] Constances: but u can say same of classrooms and textbooks, so that shouldnt worry us 5/10 10:11:12.753 [Guild] Kandilgre: type /ignore Mashard if you can see that 5/10 10:11:13.874 [Guild] Constances: but truly lemme say one thing then ill shut it:::::::::::: 5/10 10:11:14.152 Getfunked has come online. 5/10 10:11:16.396 [Guild] Pleimisti: what types of people/games? is it difinable? 5/10 10:11:18.353 Telmura pokes Mashard. Hey! 5/10 10:11:18.631 Forthewin is amazed. 5/10 10:11:22.963 [Guild] Pleimisti: *definable 5/10 10:11:23.912 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: computabull interrupted a lot yesterday in gchat... but maybe he can? :) 5/10 10:11:32.749 [Guild] Maindora: shall we take this as an opportunity to discuss griefers? :) 5/10 10:11:33.590 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: well he's the head honcho 5/10 10:11:36.352 [Guild] Thralmart: I use WoW as a teaching tool for my son,he wanted to find a specific pet and I pointed him in the general direction of the information.He did more online research for that than many of his school projects. 5/10 10:11:40.034 [Guild] Inductive: lol 5/10 10:11:43.591 [Guild] Constances: games are deeply life enhancing in teh Dewey sense for the majority of those who play. including & especially intellectually 5/10 10:11:49.709 Mashard says: DEMISE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD WOOOOOOOOT 5/10 10:11:52.067 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: yeah that's what I mean... does that make him special? 5/10 10:12:04.866 [Guild] Constances: (great example thral) 5/10 10:12:09.864 Cloacina has come online. 5/10 10:12:16.503 [4. terrornova] Pleimisti: or impose a responsibilty to model stfu 5/10 10:12:17.066 Augmentology dances with Catullus. 5/10 10:12:17.865 [Guild] Tburke: So: want to learn calculus, World of Warcraft not a good idea. Want to learn how to get results in a small group? Fantastic. Want to learn in general how to act to improve results? Also fantastic. Is that a good breakdown? 5/10 10:12:19.617 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: Mary-Anne Breeze, an artist, apparently 5/10 10:12:36.258 Forthewin claps excitedly for Tburke. 5/10 10:12:36.372 Khatchi's pet begins eating a Zesty Clam Meat. 5/10 10:12:36.949 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: ah very interesting, thank you sylvie 5/10 10:12:43.338 [Guild] Constances: ya, want to learn how to mathematize? wow is pretty good 5/10 10:12:45.031 [Guild] Taurhild: Actually, the calculations some players do to figure out stats are stunning.... 5/10 10:12:50.776 Jalena giggles at Mashard. 5/10 10:12:55.256 Mashard says: DEMISE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD WOOOOOOOOT 5/10 10:13:02.535 [Guild] Southerncal: OK, speaking of skills: 5/10 10:13:05.296 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 6: Can an MMO really help make someone a leader? 5/10 10:13:06.240 Forthewin nods at Taurhild. 5/10 10:13:08.814 Blindedbi lies down before Augmentology. 5/10 10:13:12.017 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: well yes it does make him special :D 5/10 10:13:19.940 Augmentology gently pats Blindedbi. 5/10 10:13:20.172 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: we would not be here without him 5/10 10:13:21.695 [Guild] Estelan: Much of leadership and management are about dealing with people-resolving conflicts, setting expectations, giving constructive feedback. Even if it's all online, they're still real people. As one 32-year old player put it ... 5/10 10:13:27.172 [Guild] Estelan: "It also gave me a lot of confidence - after all, if you can lead a 60-person complex raid, how hard can it be to organize a team meeting?". 5/10 10:13:39.207 Mashard says: lol 5/10 10:13:44.645 Tiral has gone offline. 5/10 10:13:44.652 Augmentology tells a joke to Blindedbi. 5/10 10:13:50.342 Blindedbi cheers! 5/10 10:13:53.406 Augmentology tells a joke to Oisini. 5/10 10:13:56.483 [Guild] Thoguht: /cheer 5/10 10:14:00.802 Jalena cheers at Mashard! 5/10 10:14:02.842 Mashard yells: demise still rules 5/10 10:14:10.200 Grimflower yawns sleepily. 5/10 10:14:11.723 [Guild] Southerncal: I've seen a lot of opinion about this, but no solid research showing it. Falls under the "want to believe" category, no? 5/10 10:14:15.929 Mashard: Level 27 Blood Elf Paladin - Undercity 5/10 10:14:15.929 1 player total 5/10 10:14:17.839 Kvinesdal cheers at Cymbiotic! 5/10 10:14:23.970 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: the natives are getting restless 5/10 10:14:28.600 [Guild] Augmentology: or generative research, south:) 5/10 10:14:36.398 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: good point by socal 5/10 10:14:43.475 [Guild] Augmentology: not empirical:) 5/10 10:14:44.275 [Guild] Southerncal: Can't help myself. Validity FTW 5/10 10:14:49.595 [Guild] Augmentology: ehehh 5/10 10:14:49.875 [Guild] Zomboni: (Thelial): I was told this exactly in a recent interview I conducted. 5/10 10:14:56.100 [Guild] Tburke: A sort of sideways approach to this, though. I actually think playing Dungeons and Dragons was a good way to develop my pedagogical skills. But online VWs "cap" or constrain how much players control the world and the social environment. 5/10 10:14:57.232 Forthewin says: You called? :P 5/10 10:15:01.713 [Guild] Akigain: i believe there was an article in Wired about companies hiring people who are guild/raid leaders 5/10 10:15:05.710 Tiamatt has come online. 5/10 10:15:06.792 [Guild] Henchbeard: could build it out of analysis of encounter design eprhaps, what skills are they teaching/rewarding? 5/10 10:15:14.714 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: i've turned off emotes now in the main chat window. perhaps if this is done again, a guide for new users on how to do things like ignore, open new chat windows, etc, would help. (look, i'm learning things! :) 5/10 10:15:25.317 [Guild] Constances: there's a doctoral student here doing work on leadership in wow from a leadership training perspective 5/10 10:15:26.949 [Guild] Tburke: I think Henchbeard's question is really the key. What *kind* of leadership. 5/10 10:15:27.484 Conference yells: I'm here! 5/10 10:15:29.388 [Guild] Constances: and yes, he has data 5/10 10:15:32.467 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: lol 5/10 10:15:37.508 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: yes indeed - and more vetting of participants - we clearly have many who are not professionals 5/10 10:15:39.147 [Guild] Taurhild: We discussed this a few weeks ago in Umeå -There's a distinction between leadership and management 5/10 10:15:39.426 Jalena pokes Augmentology. Hey! 5/10 10:15:39.708 [Guild] Charolais: Reeves and Malone talk about leaderships skills in game transferring out into management recently in HBR 5/10 10:15:43.106 [Guild] Southerncal: So I've seen teh WIRED piece and the recent HBR piece, but how do we actually test/prove/study this? What kind of data? 5/10 10:15:49.864 Jalena claps excitedly for Conference. 5/10 10:15:50.665 [Guild] Taurhild: management can certainly be elarned in WoW 5/10 10:15:53.784 [Guild] Constances: yea, as a guild leader for many years, I can tell u that not all wow leadership skills transfer well 5/10 10:15:58.185 [Guild] Constances: but some do 5/10 10:16:00.236 Conference says: took me forever to find this place 5/10 10:16:03.273 [Guild] Estelan: Constance, can you say a little about the grad student's methods? Longitudinal design? 5/10 10:16:03.282 [Guild] Taurhild: But where to learn leadership? 5/10 10:16:08.503 Forthewin laughs at Conference. 5/10 10:16:28.345 [Guild] Augmentology: we have to be careful not to discount speculative modelling here, that we're not layering any type of leadership generation with pre-supposed templating that only applies to so-termed 'real-world" functioning? 5/10 10:16:38.496 [Guild] Southerncal: Yeah, C. Like to hear more. Also curious about what you think transfers and what doesn't. Speculation is OK. 5/10 10:16:43.695 [Guild] Constances: longitudinal, both observational and interview/measure methinks 5/10 10:16:47.013 Blindedbi licks Augmentology. 5/10 10:16:50.495 [Guild] Constances: name is Moses WOlfenstein 5/10 10:17:00.530 Augmentology dances with Oisini. 5/10 10:17:03.851 Conference yells: invite to ?? 5/10 10:17:20.006 Conference has joined the guild. 5/10 10:17:23.888 [Guild] Pleimisti: she's not kidding. that's really his name. 5/10 10:17:26.447 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: ah, online conferences are the best: you can eat ice cream and nobody will notice 5/10 10:17:31.165 Jalena cheers at Conference! 5/10 10:17:33.409 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: ethnographically speaking, we can look at leadership development over time? I think I have some data that'll point to spontaneous leadership roles... or do I know so little about leadership literature that I'm talking about something different? 5/10 10:17:33.685 Forthewin says: I reckon 5/10 10:17:43.405 [Guild] Constances: its true. i didnt' make his name up 5/10 10:17:43.964 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: o my god that's rude 5/10 10:17:44.248 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: could also have a guild rank in place for people to be able to listen but not talk, for those not vetted 5/10 10:17:47.723 [Guild] Southerncal: Awesome name. Going to skip a question to get to meatier one 5/10 10:17:54.804 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 8: Are people more or less prone to deception and lying in virtual worlds than they are in the real world? What makes someone trustworthy in WoW, and does that track against trust in real-world relationships? 5/10 10:17:56.403 [Guild] Constances: i have 2.5 yr ethnographic data on it but not sure thats what ur asking me for 5/10 10:17:59.441 [Guild] Iamlegion: part of problem is in leadership itself -- how do you quantify it for purely 5/10 10:18:00.081 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: the emotes are really annoying 5/10 10:18:13.038 [Guild] Iamlegion: RL questions 5/10 10:18:29.677 [Guild] Tburke: This came up at a workshop I was at recently, and I was a bit surprised at how people thought that deception was rare in real life. 5/10 10:18:36.835 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: yeah, that's why i turned them off 5/10 10:18:42.204 [Guild] Constances: thats so sweet! 5/10 10:18:42.754 [Guild] Tburke: We all perform roles, faces, postures. 5/10 10:18:45.153 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: right but many don't know how 5/10 10:18:49.553 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: i would say that someones ingame trustworthiness partly depends on how real they see the VW as being 5/10 10:18:51.792 Teilnehmer has come online. 5/10 10:19:04.830 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: the discussion among the panelists is pretty interesting 5/10 10:19:06.268 [Guild] Henchbeard: consequences play a big part too 5/10 10:19:08.030 [Guild] Pleimisti: Also i think it's key to factor in whether you're talking about interactions between guildmates or not. 5/10 10:19:16.589 [Guild] Akigain: just like in RW, generating positive social capital builds trusts among players 5/10 10:19:19.069 [Guild] Tburke: But I do think there are some really interesting heuristics that inform trust in an environment like WoW. Nick's done good work on that. 5/10 10:19:21.947 Jalena giggles at Telmura. 5/10 10:19:34.617 [Guild] Pleimisti: "in WoW" is a pretty variegated field, in terms of social connections. 5/10 10:19:35.198 [Guild] Estelan: Jeff Hancock, from Cornell, did a really interesting study of deception in online dating ads. They had age, height, and weight of the real people and the corresponding ads they had put up online. They found that almost everyone lied ... 5/10 10:19:41.905 [Guild] Estelan: but that the lie was on average fairly small. But the opposite is also true, people are more willing to share secrets online because of the lack of social consequences ... 5/10 10:19:57.021 [Guild] Estelan: So about 35% of 3200 respondents said they had shared a secret with an online friend that they had never told anyone in the real world. 5/10 10:20:07.298 [Guild] Conference: interesting 5/10 10:20:07.298 Perplextar dances with Iamlegion. 5/10 10:20:23.776 [Guild] Southerncal: How much of this is the thinness or thickness of the medium and how much is the setting/particular social context? 5/10 10:20:40.806 Trickshot's Unknown is dismissed. 5/10 10:20:42.853 [Guild] Southerncal: As in voice/text SL/WoW/ClubPenguin? 5/10 10:20:48.573 [Guild] Tburke: Here too different virtual worlds create different kinds of consciousness or practices. Many players would trust people in WoW based on thin information, but not in EVE. 5/10 10:20:58.049 [Guild] Henchbeard: absolutely 5/10 10:21:04.454 [Guild] Henchbeard: consequence. 5/10 10:21:04.726 Stronglykbul dances with Telmura. 5/10 10:21:05.569 [Guild] Réjean: I fully agree with that 5/10 10:21:19.701 [Guild] Taurhild: I think people are gettign better at integrating computer based communication into their other social interactions. Which means we are getting an etiquette for it, slowly. 5/10 10:21:36.970 [Guild] Charolais: there are studies that decption is easier/more likely in avatar vs chat online interactions. 5/10 10:21:44.691 Why kneels down. 5/10 10:21:44.967 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: waht are the consequences of lying in WoW? 5/10 10:21:57.298 Mower has gone offline. 5/10 10:21:57.849 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: same as in RL if you are found out 5/10 10:21:59.650 [Guild] Pleimisti: i think what's key in Tim's point is that VWs are different from online generally 5/10 10:22:02.376 [Guild] Southerncal: NOTE: Nearing end. If you have a Q for the panel, pst to me 5/10 10:22:11.149 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: depends on context, no? in our guild, if you lied about who you were, there would be strong social consequences. 5/10 10:22:18.675 [Guild] Estelan: There was an interesting study recently that people were more likely to lie when using an avatar that was very different from them 5/10 10:22:22.376 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: but expectations are different int he "larger" game world 5/10 10:22:23.288 [Guild] Pleimisti: they play with fiction/nonfiction in often assertive ways 5/10 10:22:30.583 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: i just think in general people hate to be lied to, no matter what the lie 5/10 10:22:31.422 [Guild] Conference: I found that server type plays a huge role in trust and aggressive behaviour. For instance, on a pvp server two similar leveled hunters or warriors may leave each other alone if on opposing factions, but not always when competing for resources or quest m 5/10 10:22:41.951 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: it just annoys them 5/10 10:23:00.827 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: in the guild where i do research ppl who lie are immediately gkicked 5/10 10:23:18.105 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: interesting - what kind of lies do they do? 5/10 10:23:24.555 Jalena dances with Conference. 5/10 10:23:27.862 [Guild] Southerncal: Last Q from me, then some from the audience 5/10 10:23:30.100 Profraotan has joined the guild. 5/10 10:23:30.943 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: typically about their past experience or level of skill 5/10 10:23:32.664 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 9: Blame Mr. Bungle for all of this, but: Are there good real-world models or practices for governance, management and social organization that aren't present in World of Warcraft, but could/should be? What other models in other spaces work? 5/10 10:23:33.582 [Guild] Profraotan: hello! 5/10 10:23:48.577 [Guild] Augmentology: hey prof 5/10 10:24:16.384 [Guild] Pleimisti: It's hard to say. there have been so few other models of governance. 5/10 10:24:19.294 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: note to self: if running a group activity in WoW in the future, make sure there's an "orientation session" before each event to cover things like /ignore, chat windows, expected etiquette, etc. 5/10 10:24:19.934 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: @9: Well, how about some way to have a chat among 100s of players that only a few can type to? 5/10 10:24:26.531 [Guild] Conference: well 5/10 10:24:30.252 [Guild] Tburke: This is where I get into my obsession with sovereignty. 5/10 10:24:41.969 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: good idea liz 5/10 10:24:44.771 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: that's relatively easy...you can create guild ranks that don't allow typing to gchat 5/10 10:24:46.448 [Guild] Tburke: It would be an advance if developers simply recognized that they *do* govern. 5/10 10:24:52.245 Gizsela has gone offline. 5/10 10:24:54.846 [Guild] Pleimisti: LambdaMOO was this brief athenian moment, but all the others have been these sort of corporate autocracies. even SL. 5/10 10:24:55.411 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: you can? did not know that 5/10 10:24:57.484 Scienceagain has come online. 5/10 10:25:11.604 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: yep. We No has a "brig" rank :) 5/10 10:25:16.763 [Guild] Ealphaba: i find it very interesting that so many people are perfectly happy to "reside" in a world where they essentially have no legal recourse 5/10 10:25:17.684 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: does that mean we don't get to answer question 10? darn 5/10 10:25:21.605 [Guild] Augmentology: there's a certain lvl of recursiveness inbuilt there it seems...forcing a structural re-write into a synthetic environment would really completely alter the trajectory/"natural" function>progression of that environ wouldn't it? 5/10 10:25:21.605 [Guild] Henchbeard: the EVE developer 'cheating' could be relevant here too. 5/10 10:25:26.411 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: to be honest, though, I am not finding this too bad 5/10 10:25:28.924 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: you would have to assign all those ranks right before a conference, but doable 5/10 10:25:45.598 [Guild] Rissy: However in SL you are free to set up a "group" with different levels of roles and responsibilities as well as rights for your organization, professional association or other type of network. 5/10 10:25:45.838 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: it's really not bad, agree 5/10 10:25:54.453 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: no, you could simply temporarily change settings for a given rank, rather than reassigning rank 5/10 10:25:57.675 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: way better than Second Life 5/10 10:26:06.438 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: indeed 5/10 10:26:11.794 [Guild] Taurhild: We have to remember the nature of "games" vs "worlds" 5/10 10:26:11.794 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: yes, give panelists a special rank 5/10 10:26:17.471 [Guild] Tburke: Yes. 5/10 10:26:21.911 [Guild] Taurhild: In games we are supposed to follow set rules 5/10 10:26:24.399 Stronglykbul dances with Telmura. 5/10 10:26:37.876 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Don't think that subversive gamers would just use /say? 5/10 10:26:40.948 [Guild] Tburke: Part of the question would be in game-type VWs, are there "playful" social forms or structures that no one has implemented or allowed? 5/10 10:26:52.347 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: sure, but that can be removed from the chat log 5/10 10:26:52.626 [4. terrornova] Kowski: if we do this outside of a city there would be less of /trade /general chats? 5/10 10:26:59.464 [Guild] Atratas: yet games are often presented to us as worlds Taurhild 5/10 10:27:02.526 Wraithen has joined the guild. 5/10 10:27:09.702 [Guild] Rissy: They shouldn't be. They are games. 5/10 10:27:10.783 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: yes there would -- that's the kind of thing that needs to go into the guide, how to turn those off 5/10 10:27:14.584 [Guild] Computabull: One of the great potentials of virtual worlds is to host utopian experiments, so it would be wonderful to see many of them incorporating ideas not from standard real-world instutions, but from utopian sources. 5/10 10:27:25.317 [Guild] Niali: allowed to have more than 5 members to a group...that'd be nice 5/10 10:27:26.391 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: that's solvable with an orientation session/new user guide also, sinc eyou can unsubscribe from those channels 5/10 10:27:27.459 [Guild] Perplextar: Do you consider WoW a world or a game? 5/10 10:27:29.538 Maggiemae nods at Computabull. 5/10 10:27:31.659 [Guild] Tburke: They shouldn't be worlds because they're games, Rissy? That seems an odd idea to me. 5/10 10:27:38.697 [4. terrornova] Kowski: agree 5/10 10:27:40.136 [Guild] Taurhild: A game. 5/10 10:27:44.135 Augmentology has gone offline. 5/10 10:27:44.421 [Guild] Atratas: i dont think there is a rule to say they shouldnt be presented as worlds 5/10 10:27:45.354 [Guild] Rissy: WoW-game 5/10 10:27:49.975 [Guild] Profraotan: wow is a social game, a team sport. and team sports do have rules 5/10 10:27:51.493 Augmentology has come online. 5/10 10:27:54.532 Forthewin agrees with Tburke. 5/10 10:27:55.093 [Guild] Perplextar: Given the polarization world vs. game I se WoW as a world 5/10 10:27:58.333 [Guild] Computabull: World. My characters prefer to explore, rather than compete. I hate games. 5/10 10:28:05.380 Forme has come online. 5/10 10:28:09.381 [Guild] Henchbeard: its a space as well as a game, is it primarily a space? 5/10 10:28:12.332 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: but then you'd have the problem of people not reading the guide and having to explain every time - sigh 5/10 10:28:12.609 [Guild] Atratas: i lvoe games that take place in a world 5/10 10:28:14.969 [Guild] Grimflower: WoW = 1 world in which many games are played 5/10 10:28:15.811 [Guild] Rissy: Clarify--yes WoW is a world but perhaps there should be classifications-game world, social world, etc. 5/10 10:28:16.089 [Guild] Tburke: I think if sociality was more of a sandbox, people would play with it more. 5/10 10:28:20.610 [Guild] Profraotan: it doesn't exclude it from being a world. as a wow player, one can choose to not be part of a team. 5/10 10:28:24.051 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: one possibility would be to allow audience members to make, say up to 5 comments, about something they know and care about -- but limited to that 5/10 10:28:25.690 [Guild] Southerncal: I have a *lot* of Qs from the audience. I will try to get some out: Do people in VWs develop "swift trust?" As in do they learn more about each other faster than RL--strangers on a train phenomenon 5/10 10:28:37.711 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:28:40.759 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:28:41.565 [Guild] Pleimisti: that's certianly the case of SL, Tim 5/10 10:28:42.377 [Guild] Augmentology: game=world in that pre-set parameters are often overwritten/extended via the soical fomentation that occurs 5/10 10:28:44.078 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:28:47.400 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:28:50.477 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:28:53.556 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:28:56.685 [4. terrornova] Saraswathi: unfortunately that's unenforcable 5/10 10:28:56.685 Getfunked creates Heavy Wool Bandage. 5/10 10:29:00.446 [Guild] Estelan: well, it's more like strangers in a war trench ... it's the sudden crises that spark a lot of relationships 5/10 10:29:03.367 Tannim's pet begins eating a Raw Longjaw Mud Snapper. 5/10 10:29:08.203 [4. terrornova] Kowski: mods? 5/10 10:29:15.753 Getfunked creates Bolt of Linen Cloth. 5/10 10:29:19.032 Getfunked creates Bolt of Linen Cloth. 5/10 10:29:19.599 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: yes there could be a mod 5/10 10:29:20.238 Telmura agrees with Estelan. 5/10 10:29:22.232 Getfunked creates Bolt of Linen Cloth. 5/10 10:29:22.600 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Didn't Bridget Baron find that swift trust develops with lots of communication turns? 5/10 10:29:23.797 Forthewin agrees with Estelan. 5/10 10:29:24.368 [Guild] Taurhild: I'd love to get into the world vs game issue, but we should do it elsewhere, before I start soem shameless plugging. 5/10 10:29:24.591 Tannim's pet begins eating a Raw Bristle Whisker Catfish. 5/10 10:29:25.878 [Guild] Perplextar: what computabull said: I like the exploration in wow, find "games" boring 5/10 10:29:27.079 [Guild] Tburke: I think "swift trust" changes the more a player has played in a VW. 5/10 10:29:34.367 [Guild] Estelan: but this was more true of the older MMOs (like EQ) where the death pnealty was more painful ... 5/10 10:29:36.956 [Guild] Pleimisti: i think another thing that expedites trust in VWs, relative to other online spaces, is economics 5/10 10:29:36.965 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: hmm don't remember 5/10 10:29:47.052 Pipetter has come online. 5/10 10:29:47.329 [Guild] Rissy: laugh, ping me and we'll have that debate in SL in our amphitheatre :) 5/10 10:29:50.034 [Guild] Tburke: The more experience a player has, the slower to expedite trust or have "stranger intimacy". 5/10 10:29:58.111 [Guild] Annelida: some of us play wow more like a team sport than a "game" per se 5/10 10:29:59.512 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: joe walther found that trust and intimacy develop far more slowly online 5/10 10:29:59.672 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: I could be misremembering 5/10 10:30:13.550 [Guild] Tburke: (I think that's true about online interaction in general.) 5/10 10:30:16.596 Kandilgre cheers at Annelida! 5/10 10:30:17.231 [Guild] Southerncal: Audience Q: Why aren't VWs used more for research? Is there a stigma preventing it or something else? And how many people's spouses currently think you are not "working" right now? 5/10 10:30:26.986 Forthewin nods at Annelida. 5/10 10:30:27.266 [Guild] Maggiemae: LOL 5/10 10:30:30.224 [Guild] Pleimisti: ha 5/10 10:30:31.945 [Guild] Maggiemae: and my daughter! 5/10 10:30:33.905 [Guild] Kandilgre: <---- 5/10 10:30:34.186 [Guild] Tburke: I got an eyeroll about twenty minutes back. 5/10 10:30:34.194 [Guild] Niali: too true! 5/10 10:30:40.144 [Guild] Inductive: mine accepts it then sighs 5/10 10:30:42.462 Warahip has come online. 5/10 10:30:43.434 [Guild] Saraswathi: my spouse and kids have been thoroughly indoctrinated in this matter 5/10 10:30:46.662 [Guild] Akigain: same here 5/10 10:30:50.583 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: my husband accepted to cut our vacation time short so I could participate in this 5/10 10:30:56.181 [Guild] Typezombie: mine does reasearch on VW so it is ok =) 5/10 10:31:00.261 [Guild] Annelida: my significant other and children play with me ;p 5/10 10:31:01.021 [Guild] Tburke: But I think one issue is that the most interesting VWs are hard to work with because they're major commercial products. 5/10 10:31:04.461 [Guild] Pipetter: I've chosen not to engage in a relationship because I'm married to the game. :( 5/10 10:31:09.900 [Guild] Boscotore: My room mates make fun of me mercilessly. 5/10 10:31:10.738 [Guild] Shugar: joking aside, the field of study lacks a lot of rigor and grounding that other fields have 5/10 10:31:11.538 [Guild] Madrone: my husband and I both play...our son got us started 5/10 10:31:11.818 [Guild] Tburke: Iterability would be really useful for studying them. 5/10 10:31:13.389 [Guild] Taurhild: Mine are actually pretty proud. It's long time since my son used the line "My mother is higher level than you" To diss people at school... 5/10 10:31:26.176 [Guild] Noralore: my spouse and I met at MediaMOO in 1994, so we're in the thick of it together 5/10 10:31:33.216 [Guild] Estelan: Yeah, as Tim said, it's hard to work with the game companies on research most of the times. 5/10 10:31:34.385 [Guild] Profsmith: my wife wants me to play 5/10 10:31:42.733 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: wow that's cool sylvie 5/10 10:31:57.869 [4. terrornova] Jusdafacs: yeah, I owe him big now :) 5/10 10:32:02.380 [Guild] Tburke: Well, one there's the issue of access to useful data. 5/10 10:32:02.930 [Guild] Forme: These VWs lack an open API to collect any data, even statistical. 5/10 10:32:06.769 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: he's probably counting the ways haha! 5/10 10:32:12.768 [Guild] Pleimisti: They have a proprietary interest in their data. 5/10 10:32:18.846 [Guild] Typezombie: is there a WoW or MMO researchers mailing list? 5/10 10:32:20.328 [Guild] Shugar: it hasn't even reached the level of other media studies, such a film and TV, and they are still "ghetto-ized" 5/10 10:32:20.608 [Guild] Akigain: i don't think it lacks rigor, it's just that studying games and play is a difficult field to explain to others, especially video games, being "half-real" 5/10 10:32:21.286 Stronglykbul dances with Telmura. 5/10 10:32:23.846 [Guild] Pleimisti: And a lot of money riding on that interest. 5/10 10:32:26.768 [Guild] Kandilgre: Data collection is difficult, and how do you study this environment without changing it 5/10 10:32:34.484 [Guild] Tburke: But for another, think how interesting in a research sense it would be if WoW had ten different rulesets on its servers. 5/10 10:32:35.522 Callea has gone offline. 5/10 10:32:44.044 [Guild] Tburke: But that's got a cost on the service end for them. 5/10 10:32:49.283 [Guild] Rissy: Point-SL has open API and statistical data is being developed. It depends on you primarily, to program and set that up. 5/10 10:32:51.002 [Guild] Getfunked: how do you study any environment without effect.... 5/10 10:33:00.839 [1. General] Anceints: lf1m sfk 5/10 10:33:05.038 Stronglykbul nods at Maggiemae. 5/10 10:33:07.518 [Guild] Pleimisti: Well, instead of the 4 that they do have, Tburke? 5/10 10:33:07.812 [Guild] Southerncal: So there is a large project researching EQ2 data I and others (Nick among them) are working on. We have all of the system data, plus survey work. First paper on it was just accepted and we'll post it to the wiki. 5/10 10:33:15.077 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: Has anyone done research on the unofficial WoW servers? 5/10 10:33:21.237 [Guild] Estelan: And I think many IRBs are still catching up on what doing research in these environments actually mean 5/10 10:33:23.675 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: not to my knowledge 5/10 10:33:28.562 [Guild] Tburke: But the variation is just along one very thin axis, Plei. 5/10 10:33:44.513 [Guild] Southerncal: This reminds me that those of you who want to post papers and works in progress should send them to Bill. Email's on the wiki. 5/10 10:33:52.480 [Guild] Southerncal: And our final Q: 5/10 10:33:52.793 [4. terrornova] Thoguht: maybe Beth Kolko... 5/10 10:33:54.590 [Guild] Southerncal: QUESTION 10: True or False: Julian Dibbell is an atrocious ninja-looter. 5/10 10:33:58.789 [Guild] Saraswathi: TRUE 5/10 10:33:59.068 [Guild] Estelan: ROFL 5/10 10:34:00.189 [4. terrornova] Maggiemae: hmm i should check 5/10 10:34:00.195 Gonzorina nods at Thralmart. 5/10 10:34:00.428 [Guild] Rissy: cackle! 5/10 10:34:03.308 [Guild] Zscheme: lmao 5/10 10:34:03.868 [Guild] Tburke: (I think as a side issue that expecting "rigor" of a certain kind in studying *any* complex system is an epistemological booboo) 5/10 10:34:05.266 [Guild] Jusdafacs: TRUE! 5/10 10:34:05.547 [Guild] Taurhild: I am sure that is true! 5/10 10:34:06.354 Getfunked bursts into dance. 5/10 10:34:06.626 [Guild] Inductive: :D 5/10 10:34:06.906 [Guild] Augmentology: lol:) 5/10 10:34:07.357 [Guild] Pleimisti: Right, but vary it much more, and the game's not fun anymore, and poof no more subjects... 5/10 10:34:08.746 [Guild] Constances: his mom is, yes. 5/10 10:34:08.746 Iamlegion laughs at Khole. 5/10 10:34:09.357 [Guild] Pleimisti: oh 5/10 10:34:12.993 [Guild] Pleimisti: wait. 5/10 10:34:14.626 [Guild] Tburke: Now THAT is a rigorous finding. 5/10 10:34:15.743 [Guild] Pleimisti: what? 5/10 10:34:17.303 [Guild] Forme: ninjaing ftw! 5/10 10:34:21.061 Stronglykbul laughs at Catullus. 5/10 10:34:24.663 Stronglykbul laughs. 5/10 10:34:27.984 [Guild] Constances: 9 of 10 Terrors say yah 5/10 10:34:29.620 [Guild] Saraswathi: we have empirical data on that. longitudinal, even. 5/10 10:34:32.350 [Guild] Jusdafacs: long live the king of Ninjas! 5/10 10:34:32.901 [Guild] Pleimisti: Doh! Now let me say this about that... 5/10 10:34:35.099 [Guild] Estelan: lol 5/10 10:34:36.260 [Guild] Constances: it does generalize 5/10 10:34:36.539 Iamlegion roars with bestial vigor. So fierce! 5/10 10:34:42.353 [Guild] Computabull: TO CONCLUDE THE SESSION: 1) Wait while a Human tries to draw guards into out room, then exit, turn left, right and leap out. 5 min BIO BREAK before Sylvanas 5/10 10:34:48.979 [Guild] Computabull: TO CONCLUDE THE SESSION: 1) Wait while a Human tries to draw guards into out room, then exit, turn left, right and leap out. 5 min BIO BREAK before Sylvanas 5/10 10:34:50.098 [Guild] Profsmith: when obama wins julian will no longer be a ninja looter 5/10 10:34:53.382 Computabull has gone offline. 5/10 10:35:00.018 [Guild] Constances: hey, i wanna call out to all: don't forget our Games+Learning+Society Conference here in Madison on July 10-11 5/10 10:35:10.656 [Guild] Pleimisti: first: i think we cna all agree, that the answer to that depends on what the definition of "is" is 5/10 10:35:21.453 Grimflower claps excitedly. 5/10 10:35:27.090 Saureus applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:35:32.449 Nemorensis applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:35:34.058 Gonzorina claps excitedly. 5/10 10:35:34.608 Yasura cheers! 5/10 10:35:36.569 Jakola cheers! 5/10 10:35:36.810 [Guild] Atratas: check our www.digra.org for all upcoming games conferences :) 5/10 10:35:37.649 Saraswathi hugs Maxrohn. 5/10 10:35:38.062 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 10:35:38.777 Saureus cheers! 5/10 10:35:40.018 Wraithen roars with bestial vigor. So fierce! 5/10 10:35:40.409 Forthewin cheers at Maxrohn! 5/10 10:35:41.128 Thralmart says: can we kill the human? 5/10 10:35:44.569 Forthewin says: lol 5/10 10:35:46.018 Trickshot has gone offline. 5/10 10:35:46.567 [Guild] Maggiemae: thanks to the panelists and southerncal!! 5/10 10:35:48.772 [Guild] Typezombie: WO HOIOOOO! 5/10 10:35:50.886 Gonzorina cheers! 5/10 10:35:53.406 Gonzorina claps excitedly. 5/10 10:35:54.088 [Guild] Profsmith: thanks all 5/10 10:35:55.124 Akigain thanks everyone. 5/10 10:35:55.644 Lindrius claps excitedly. 5/10 10:35:56.285 Lack cheers! 5/10 10:35:56.285 Saureus applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:35:56.285 [Guild] Southerncal: Thanks for a good session, all. Sorry I couldn't get everyone's many excellent Qs out. And yes, attend GLS, join DIGRA and send Bill your papers. 5/10 10:35:56.498 [Guild] Kandilgre: i doubt you can kill the human 5/10 10:35:57.885 Madrone says: yes! kill the human 5/10 10:35:58.086 [Guild] Rissy: Gonzo, got the full session recorded...will be stuck here doing nothing while it merges the files. Takl later all 5/10 10:36:00.124 Stronglykbul applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:36:02.647 [Guild] Zomboni: (Thelial): I'll be there Constance, a perk to living in Wisconsin :) 5/10 10:36:03.207 [Guild] Kandilgre: but I can't see his lvl either 5/10 10:36:04.054 Stronglykbul cheers! 5/10 10:36:04.971 Zedediah cheers at Undercity Guardian! 5/10 10:36:04.971 Vythien applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:36:04.971 Madrone says: we outnumber them 5/10 10:36:10.173 Stronglykbul applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:36:10.789 Hypothesis thanks everyone. 5/10 10:36:12.616 Hypothesis applauds. Bravo! 5/10 10:36:14.512 Constances yells: big thanks to Southerncal for herding the cats! 5/10 10:36:15.030 Akigain has gone offline. 5/10 10:36:16.177 Yasura thanks everyone. 5/10 10:36:18.211 [Guild] Augmentology: while we're doing rampant ads, please do contribute to augmentology.com. would love to see wot prfessionals contribute:) 5/10 10:36:18.470 Gonzorina cheers at Nemorensis! 5/10 10:36:22.196 [Guild] Kandilgre: have you ever seen a lvl 70 mage versus 40 lvl 40s? 5/10 10:36:23.722 You dance with Maxrohn. 5/10 10:36:25.770 [Guild] Artume: thanks to all for a great session!! 5/10 10:36:26.249 Crucinogen seems a little tipsy from the Fiery Festival Brew. 5/10 10:36:26.907 Conference yells: might as well kill him lol 5/10 10:36:27.798 Pleimisti yells: Socal rooolz! 5/10 10:36:28.986 Yasura cheers at Maxrohn! 5/10 10:36:34.602 In quiet contemplation, Forthewin mourns the loss of the dead. 5/10 10:36:35.396 Trickshot has come online. 5/10 10:36:36.195 [Guild] Khatchi: same guy from yesterday.. 5/10 10:36:38.306 [Guild] Constances: wootie! come to WI. there's no snow on the ground in July, I promise. ;) 5/10 10:36:38.728 Cymbiotic cries. 5/10 10:36:39.924 Conference yells: woot 1 honor point! 5/10 10:36:39.924 Nise cries. 5/10 10:36:42.141 Forthewin begins to play the world's smallest violin. 5/10 10:36:43.623 [Guild] Niali: great session, thanks! 5/10 10:36:44.555 In quiet contemplation, Saraswathi mourns the loss of the dead. 5/10 10:36:44.936 [Raid Leader] Lightsydor: Good work all :-) 5/10 10:36:45.910 [Guild] Thralmart: I didnt get an HK 5/10 10:36:46.616 Lack roars with bestial vigor. So fierce! 5/10 10:36:47.477 Forthewin begins to play the world's smallest violin. 5/10 10:36:48.450 In quiet contemplation, Hypothesis mourns the loss of the dead. 5/10 10:36:49.003 Stronglykbul cheers! 5/10 10:36:49.714 In quiet contemplation, Shiyali mourns the loss of the dead. 5/10 10:36:49.833 Passera is now the group leader. 5/10 10:36:50.395 Lightsydor has left the raid group. 5/10 10:36:50.395 Tburke cheers! 5/10 10:36:54.422 [Guild] Conference: yeah I tagged him :oP 5/10 10:36:54.968 Tburke cheers! 5/10 10:36:56.142 Madrone's pet begins eating a Springpaw Appetizer. 5/10 10:37:01.272 [Guild] Iamlegion: thanks to dmitri and presenters .. w00t 5/10 10:37:03.556 [Guild] Forthewin: lol 5/10 10:37:04.070 [Guild] Ybika: bye all! :) 5/10 10:37:04.908 Tburke tells a joke. 5/10 10:37:05.270 [Guild] Forthewin: cheaters! 5/10 10:37:07.471 Ybika has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:08.271 [Guild] Gonzorina: 124 SCIENCE GUILDIES ONLINE! 5/10 10:37:08.910 Dramanite dances with Constances. 5/10 10:37:09.308 You cheer! 5/10 10:37:11.748 Atratas waves goodbye to Taurhild. Farewell! 5/10 10:37:12.997 Parnopaeus has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:13.747 Stronglykbul cheers! 5/10 10:37:15.748 [Guild] Augmentology: yes thanks all, extremely interesting session:) 5/10 10:37:16.828 [Guild] Kandilgre: you have to be in the same party as whoever does the majority of the dmg to get the HK 5/10 10:37:16.947 Charolais has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:18.150 Demena has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:20.068 [Guild] Pleimisti: dang where's my raid invite? 5/10 10:37:21.669 [Guild] Painmanager: oh boy, now a bunch of us are flagged. :-D 5/10 10:37:21.669 [Guild] Catullus: Into the big slim channel! 5/10 10:37:23.389 Idnan claps excitedly. 5/10 10:37:24.466 [Guild] Alwayofmisha: over 100 here at once :O 5/10 10:37:27.827 You leave the group. 5/10 10:37:28.224 [Guild] Hypothesis: that'd take a large ballroom to be sure 5/10 10:37:28.644 You have left the raid group. 5/10 10:37:28.722 [Guild] Forthewin: Well, I gotta say, it's been great, but seeing it's 3:40 AM i'm heading ot bed!!! :D 5/10 10:37:31.385 In quiet contemplation, Stronglykbul mourns the loss of the dead. 5/10 10:37:35.427 Forthewin yells: FOR SCIENCE! 5/10 10:37:35.824 Cplane has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:36.107 [Guild] Jusdafacs: where are we going now? 5/10 10:37:39.303 [Guild] Atratas: teatime here in the UK 5/10 10:37:40.943 Lack yells: FOR SCIENCE! 5/10 10:37:41.743 Forthewin has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:42.223 Painmanager yells: FOR SCIENCE! 5/10 10:37:45.903 Niali yells: For Science! 5/10 10:37:45.903 [Guild] Madrone: nobody is going to attack you in the UC 5/10 10:37:47.902 Conference yells: for science! 5/10 10:37:49.662 Kandilgre yells: for the earthmother 5/10 10:37:51.501 Passera's pet begins eating a Raw Longjaw Mud Snapper. 5/10 10:37:53.222 Henchbeard yells: We do what we must, because we can! 5/10 10:37:53.222 Vythien yells: FOR SCIENCE! 5/10 10:37:55.461 Nemorensis has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:55.464 Trickshot has gone offline. 5/10 10:37:58.781 Thralmart yells: for lemmings! 5/10 10:38:04.179 Atratas yells: for Art! 5/10 10:38:04.183 Telmura yells: Stand back! I'm going to try science! 5/10 10:38:08.180 Passera yells: for the horde! 5/10 10:38:09.619 Tburke has gone offline. 5/10 10:38:14.576 Réjean yells: For Science the guild! Not the hegemony of science per se! 5/10 10:38:17.817 [Guild] Forme: perfect landing 5/10 10:38:24.495 Teilnehmer has gone offline. 5/10 10:38:26.496 Uljasa has gone offline.